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Sent
by Pasadena Police Department - CA
207 N Garfield Ave, Pasadena, CA 91101 |
Purpose
Saturday, March 9, 2013
"Tip-A-Cop"
Published on Mar 9, 2013
This contractor crew were informed
of the monitoring by the NO On 710 groups prior to starting up. Note the
drilling rig was older & dirtier than the newer one used in So.
Pasadena & this drilling unit was louder. Also, please note the
amount of exhaust coming from the truck with the barrels for the soil
samples as it drives away. Who do we report this to? Not only does El
Sereno get extra noise, but we get an extra dose of pollution in the
face as a bonus. I would like to know if this crew billed Metro for an
entire workday. The notice of drilling stated all work starts at 8:00AM,
but the rig arrived around 9:00AM, then the crew drove off the site at
10:30AM. Late to work early lunch. Nice work if you can get it.
Ron Kaye: Democracy wins a round
http://www.glendalenewspress.com/opinion/tn-gnp-0310-ron-kaye-democracy-wins-a-round,0,7577253.story
By Ron Kaye, March 9, 2013
The setting was beautiful: a hill high above the intersection of the
Santa Monica (10) and Long Beach (710) freeways, with panoramic views of
downtown L.A. and much of the San Gabriel Valley, even on this dark and
misty Thursday night.
But the scene inside the banquet room at
Luminarias, the landmark restaurant in Monterey Park, was ugly — dozens
of conspirators were set to finish the job they had started back in
December when they launched a sneak attack on the reappointment of
Glendale Councilman Ara Najarian to the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority board.
The Cities Selection Committee, the governmental body that represents
the 87 cities in the county that are not Los Angeles, had never before
denied approval of any nominee from its four sectors to any agency — an
action that left the nomination in limbo.
This is how I started my report on what led up to that dramatic moment:
“Things
have come to a pretty pass when we would rather cannibalize each other
than respect each other, would rather vilify our opponents than work out
some kind of deal that balances our competing interests and values.”
Now the cannibals were ready to devour their prey.
The
moment the Najarian appointment came up, an official from Palmdale in
the back of the room shouted: “Chair, with all due respect on behalf of
Mayor Jim Ledford … I would like to offer a substitute motion and refer
this item back to the North County sector for further discussion.”
So began 40 minutes of cheers and jeers, anger and intrigue, parliamentary games and procedural flip-flops.
Here was a roomful of public officials representing 5 million people acting at times like democracy was an alien idea.
When
the chair considered taking up the delay motion, Glendale Mayor Frank
Quintero got sustained applause when he asked, “Don't we have bylaws?”
When
he won his point, the delegate from Rosemead appealed the chair's
reversal and Lancaster City Manager Mark Bozigian demanded to know,
“What's wrong with sending it back to us so we can take another look at
it?”
That set off a minute of boos and hoots and a shouts that he “should sit down,” since he is not an official delegate.
“I'll stand up as long as it takes,” he responded.
Pasadena
attorney Chris Sutton — who had a videographer taping the meeting —
warned that “it violates California law to consider items not on the
agenda,” specifically the appeal and the motion to send the nomination
back.
“Make no mistake that this whole disagreement is about Ara
Najarian's opposition to the 710 tunnel,” said Mayor Pro Tem Laura
Olhasso of La Cañada Flintridge.
“He made the mistake of asking
hard questions like, ‘Is this the highest and best use for our tax
dollars? Are there other alternatives to a tunnel that we can spend our
constituent dollars to a better use?'” she said. “Because he has asked
those questions strongly and vocally, he has been vilified by members of
this group. This is not democracy.”
That's what this was all
about — the “710 gap project,” the multi-billion-dollar tunnel extension
to Pasadena that has been stymied for decades by opposition from
communities all along the Arroyo Seco, where it is seen as a total waste
of money, a threat to the quality of their lives, and a boondoggle that
doesn't improve the transportation system.
To the lead
conspirators — longtime Duarte councilman and MTA board member John
Fasana and Alhambra Mayor Barbara Messina — the freeway extension is a
boon to their communities, not a boondoggle.
But instead of
delivering the death blow when he took the podium, Fasana — who had been
quietly chatting with Najarian on and off — offered an alternative, an
opportunity “to look for the common ground.”
They had agreed to
let the 710 environmental study go forward so the decision can be made
on the basis of costs, environmental impacts and transportation impacts,
and to move forward on an ongoing dialogue among the four sectors on
how they can work together for mutual benefit instead of endlessly being
divided and conquered by Los Angeles, which gets the lion's share of
the funds.
“In my view, for the last five years there is not
majority support on the [MTA] board for the subway being the primary
project in Los Angeles County. The only way to see that resources are
diverted or allocated fairly … [is] if our cities can find a way to take
the issues of the sub-regions and work together,” Fasana said. “We can
be successful.... We can walk out of here with some unanimity, but also
really strengthen the position of the 87 cities.”
To laughter, cheers and applause, Najarian began by acknowledged he was “at the center of this storm.”
“John's
idea is a great one so that we four sector reps get together on a
regular basis so that we become the big boys on the MTA, not the mayor
of L.A.,” he said. “We're going to have that group of four and we'll
know exactly what the South Bay needs, what San Gabriel needs, what
Glendale, Burbank and even my good friends in Lancaster, Palmdale and
Santa Clarita, need.
“Then, we can all pull for each other and we
can all get the funding we need. That's the only way we going to
succeed. If we stand divided as we are in this room … we're only playing
into hands of whoever the new mayor of L.A. is.”
Messina, who
has worked for the freeway extension for 28 years, echoed their
sentiments, saying, “I want to see this region move forward and I am
willing to compromise. I asked [Najarian] if he was a man of his word
and he said, ‘Yes.' I'm going to trust him.”
Soon after, the
chair decided the only vote that would be taken was on the nomination
itself — not the substitute motion or the appeal.
Only Lancaster
and Palmdale voted against Najarian, who got 316 votes — 62 more than
needed — when the tedious process of population-weighted voting and
tallying was complete.
I guess that's why the cliché about
democracy and sausage-making still applies — when it works. And why
there is chaos when it doesn't, as we have come to see all too often
these days.
Got a Gripe? Holden Wants to Hear It
The San Gabriel Valley legislator wants to hear what concerns you about the 41st Assembly District and the state.
http://pasadena-ca.patch.com/articles/holden-hosts-open-house-at-new-pasadena-office#comments
By Donna Evans, March 6, 2013
Assemblymember Chris Holden (D-Pasadena) is having an Open House and the public is invited.
Assemblymember Holden wants to share the new district office with residents of the 41st A.D. and hear from them about issues that concern the district and the state. His district includes South Pasadena, Altadena, Pasadena, Sierra Madre, San Marino, Monrovia, San Dimas, La Verne, Claremont, Upland and Alta Loma (part of Rancho Cucamonga).
A brief program will announce and honor the 41st Assembly “2013 Woman of the Year” and provide a brief update from the Capitol. Light refreshments will be served and the event is free and open to the public.
The open house takes place from 2-5 p.m. on Saturday, March 16 at the 41st Assembly District Office, 600 N. Rosemead Blvd., suite 117, Pasadena.
Gripes:
Assemblymember Holden wants to share the new district office with residents of the 41st A.D. and hear from them about issues that concern the district and the state. His district includes South Pasadena, Altadena, Pasadena, Sierra Madre, San Marino, Monrovia, San Dimas, La Verne, Claremont, Upland and Alta Loma (part of Rancho Cucamonga).
A brief program will announce and honor the 41st Assembly “2013 Woman of the Year” and provide a brief update from the Capitol. Light refreshments will be served and the event is free and open to the public.
The open house takes place from 2-5 p.m. on Saturday, March 16 at the 41st Assembly District Office, 600 N. Rosemead Blvd., suite 117, Pasadena.
Gripes:
Tao
I have a gripe about Chris Holden! I'm not happy
with the fact that Chris Holden is supposed to be representing the 41st
Dist., and a majority of the cities in his district are against the
freeway, yet he insists on promoting the freeway.
Now we are seeing the results of getting someone into office who is representing international big business shipping interests instead of the needs of his constituents and local businesses.
Reply
Now we are seeing the results of getting someone into office who is representing international big business shipping interests instead of the needs of his constituents and local businesses.
Carrie Adrian
If you are representing the 41st Distr, then why do
you continue to support the 710 710 tunnel under your District you were
elected to represent? This project will be a disaster both
environmentaly and financially. There are other ways to move goods from
the Ports of Los Angeles that are more effective.
Carrie Adrian
South Pasadena
Reply
Carrie Adrian
South Pasadena
Gayle M. Montgomery
I had the benefit of meeting Mr. Holden recently at
a public event and am very impressed by the man and grateful for many
of the legislative positions he has commenced on behalf of our district.
Reply
reality check
Educate yourself : http://www.no710.com
Sadly, Ivan, your guesses are not accurate. Don't guess, do your homework.
Sadly, Ivan, your guesses are not accurate. Don't guess, do your homework.
Vicki Kea
Thank you, Reality Check! You beat me to it!
Ivan, show us an independent study that corroborates what you have stated above. Take a look at the web site mentioned by Reality Check. There is much for you to learn there. And when you do, please share with others.
Ivan, show us an independent study that corroborates what you have stated above. Take a look at the web site mentioned by Reality Check. There is much for you to learn there. And when you do, please share with others.
Eric
Vicki... slightly ironic that you ask for an independent study then suggest a web site entitled "no710.com" isn't it?
Vicki Kea
Eric, no, it isn't ironic. None of the studies at
the no710 site are funded by any no on 710 group. They are studies from
independent entities such as universities and, in fact, Metro's own
studies. We are a grassroots organization. None of us are paid, unlike
Metro's "grassroots" organization. Instead of guessing at this, go visit
no710.com. Then make an informed decision.
Brandon
The information at that no710 doesn't convince me
that the tunnel is bad. I like the idea of having a separate shipping
route for big trucks if that's what the fuss is about. Anyone here who
has read an EIR knows that in order to get an EIR approved the EIR must
have logical alternatives which sometimes end up happening. I have
worked on EIRs before and those aren't as biased as people make them out
to be. I say EIR so much because I know there is one being done by a
big Civil Engineering company and that is really the key to this project
being approved or not. For those interested in the issue be there to
comment on that, as they have to review and make comments back for that
huge binder of reports.
Gayle M. Montgomery
I get it that South Pasadena does not want the 710
Freeway. That's been abundantly clear and long litigated. South Pasadena
didn't want the Gold Line either and were pretty obnoxious when it
finally was opened and went through town. They put all kinds of
restrictions on the trains, and people stood along the line protesting.
Now they've renamed the Mission Station and put banners up trying to
lure folks to town.
South Pasadenans don't have any problems using the other freeways in the area that go through the rest of the towns. Maybe, just maybe, they should stick to city streets in all fairness. Don't get me wrong. It is a beautiful town, but it seems to want to have its cake and eat it too. Don't let commerce go through South Pasadena. Send it elsewhere and everybody else could just suck it up.
So do me a favor. Please stay off the 210 from the city lines for Monrovia, South Pasadenans, will you? We don't need the emissions.
Reply
South Pasadenans don't have any problems using the other freeways in the area that go through the rest of the towns. Maybe, just maybe, they should stick to city streets in all fairness. Don't get me wrong. It is a beautiful town, but it seems to want to have its cake and eat it too. Don't let commerce go through South Pasadena. Send it elsewhere and everybody else could just suck it up.
So do me a favor. Please stay off the 210 from the city lines for Monrovia, South Pasadenans, will you? We don't need the emissions.
Forgive my humor
Geez Gail, you are so wrong and so rude in what you have said. I hope for Chris Holden's sake you resign.
gitinjiggywitit
Gayle was very correct.
Also. virtually everyone that lives in the freeway route, bought or rented AFTER the freeway was planned.
How about all the carbon from gas etc by all the people going through stop and go traffic, instead of driving through.
SPIDRA "peak oil" wich peak are you on? Predictions have been wrong for 100 years.
driving on a freeway uses less gas than off freeway.
If I lived in the path of the freeway I would probably feel with my heart and emotions that I don't want it, but intellectually be for it......most likely......I think..........
Also. virtually everyone that lives in the freeway route, bought or rented AFTER the freeway was planned.
How about all the carbon from gas etc by all the people going through stop and go traffic, instead of driving through.
SPIDRA "peak oil" wich peak are you on? Predictions have been wrong for 100 years.
driving on a freeway uses less gas than off freeway.
If I lived in the path of the freeway I would probably feel with my heart and emotions that I don't want it, but intellectually be for it......most likely......I think..........
Forgive my humor
No gitinjiggywitit, both Gail and you are very wrong. Everyone is entitled to be ignorant, but you abuse the privilege.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Hey, Forgive, forgive me for not knowing which
position you think I am supposed to be resigning from, but I don't work
for Holder. I voted for him and, based on his actions in his short
tenure, I'd do it again in a heart beat. His actions are more than some
decision that South Pasadena is never going to be happy with anyway.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Uh, oh, Quantum. We are aligned. The Universe will implode for sure.
Frankly, somebody needs to tell South Pasadena how their valiant and noble efforts to save their quaint community play to the neighbors. Emissions aside, have you ever considered how much money your intransigence and refusal to provide a viable commercial corridor is costing the Southern California economy when trucks must reroute and take the long way around? I know you guys are full of self-talk and quite confident in your assumptions and assertions, but everybody else has to go through thither and yon just to get from here to there. They booted a good chunk of those residents. I adore the homes along that route and, by the way, their national politics are pretty awesome. Some of the best protest signs I've read while spending much longer on city streets than if the freeway had simply been extended--and by the way not extending puts that gorgeous park in jeopardy and those who frequent it from cars that travel too quickly. Cannot tell you how many times I have nearly been rear ended trying to get from 210 to 110 and needing to make a left at a light.
Fight on if you must, but you really are not playing nicely with your neighbors, and we're paying for it.
Frankly, somebody needs to tell South Pasadena how their valiant and noble efforts to save their quaint community play to the neighbors. Emissions aside, have you ever considered how much money your intransigence and refusal to provide a viable commercial corridor is costing the Southern California economy when trucks must reroute and take the long way around? I know you guys are full of self-talk and quite confident in your assumptions and assertions, but everybody else has to go through thither and yon just to get from here to there. They booted a good chunk of those residents. I adore the homes along that route and, by the way, their national politics are pretty awesome. Some of the best protest signs I've read while spending much longer on city streets than if the freeway had simply been extended--and by the way not extending puts that gorgeous park in jeopardy and those who frequent it from cars that travel too quickly. Cannot tell you how many times I have nearly been rear ended trying to get from 210 to 110 and needing to make a left at a light.
Fight on if you must, but you really are not playing nicely with your neighbors, and we're paying for it.
Forgive my humor
There ya go folks, Holden's mouth piece, Gayle,
admits the 710 freeway is being built to "provide a viable commercial
corridor" (Cargo trucks galore). Inhale deeply folks - your health is
not Holden's concern.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Forgive, no, you're wrong and rude. I am not
Holder's mouthpiece. I am a voter and a supporter, and your intimidation
tactics are not going to work. You're still wrong. So breathe deeply as
we drive through your city streets looking for short cuts to get us
where we need to go. Simple as that. There will come a time when all
your protestations to the contrary, the freeway will go through.
Joanne Nuckols
Gayle you really need to do your homework and look
at a map before posting false information. Also, we all want to know
where you live so we can put your inaccurate comments in context.
South Pasadena DID NOT oppose the Gold Line, in fact we fought for it with Los Angeles (Highland Park) and Pasadena. We also fought for mitigations of noise and grade separation which we did not get. LA and Pasadena was more successful on that front.
I suggest you look at a map before saying South Pasadena citizens should not be allowed to use freeways and be confined to surface streets. What cities do you think the Arroyo Seco Parkway goes through or does that freeway not count in your mind? It goes through LA and South Pasadena TO Pasadena and stops at the Pasadena border. FYI, this Parkway was the first freeway west of the Mississippi and we've had it in our town since 1939. If you were a fair person, you'd start harping that the 710 freeway should go through San Marino, as the first proposed route did, but they screamed about saving their town and pushed it over into So Pas. They don't have any freeway or light rail line so lets share the wealth.
Politically the 710 freeway or toll tunnels are unbuildable with LA, So Pas and Pasadena mayor and three councilmen against. These are the cities it would go through, not Alhambra. Check it out on that map I suggested!
South Pasadena DID NOT oppose the Gold Line, in fact we fought for it with Los Angeles (Highland Park) and Pasadena. We also fought for mitigations of noise and grade separation which we did not get. LA and Pasadena was more successful on that front.
I suggest you look at a map before saying South Pasadena citizens should not be allowed to use freeways and be confined to surface streets. What cities do you think the Arroyo Seco Parkway goes through or does that freeway not count in your mind? It goes through LA and South Pasadena TO Pasadena and stops at the Pasadena border. FYI, this Parkway was the first freeway west of the Mississippi and we've had it in our town since 1939. If you were a fair person, you'd start harping that the 710 freeway should go through San Marino, as the first proposed route did, but they screamed about saving their town and pushed it over into So Pas. They don't have any freeway or light rail line so lets share the wealth.
Politically the 710 freeway or toll tunnels are unbuildable with LA, So Pas and Pasadena mayor and three councilmen against. These are the cities it would go through, not Alhambra. Check it out on that map I suggested!
Gayle M. Montgomery
Joanne, there is something intrinsically wrong
about the statement "we all want to know where you live." I have stated
on more than one occasion that I lived and continue to live in Monrovia
where the Gold Line will have a station stop in 2014 if all goes well. I
rode the Gold Line from its inception. You may have fought to get a
stop, but the citizens of South Pasadena were absolutely obnoxious and
the only City to act in such fashion when the route opened. Its
restrictions on the train when it started to roll through your fair city
impacted the ridership that had to pass through it. At first, the train
went at its normal, intended pace with alarms to alert motorists to
protect passenger and driver safety. But South Pasadena just got stupid
about it, and the next thing you knew, the train had to go significantly
slower through South Pasadena than in any other venue, and could not
use the same alarms. So your remarks are ignorant. You are comparing
apples to oranges. You may have wanted a station, but you certainly did
not support the train when it was fully functional. Grey haired old
ladies with signs stood on that ride in protest when it went into
action. You cannot change that fact with your city committee's bullying
cry. It happened.
Forgive my humor
The trouble with you, Gail, is that you lack the power of reasoning but not the power to post false information.
Danielle Corona
I can't believe I'm saying this, but this was well
said Gayle, and So. Pasadena residents need to hear this. They have held
the freeway project hostage long enough. I can't believe they think the
excessive stop and go, bumper to bumper twice a day traffic that
congests the streets of So. Pasadena are better then what a freeway
would accomplish. Whatever, it certainly keeps me from visiting and
shopping in So. Pasadena.
spidra
Maybe South Pasadena is more diverse than you
think. I was raised here and I am against the 710 completion for a
number of reasons but I don't own a car, I'm pro-Metro Rail, and bike
& walk or pubtrans most places I go.
I don't believe only South Pasadena should have this quality of life, I believe every city deserves it. If other cities want a freeway moratorium and to put light rail, heavy rail and bike lanes in instead, that would be fantastic. We've already reached peak oil. Destroying beautiful historic homes & trees in order to build an expensive connector to prop up a paradigm that is in the midst of unraveling makes no economic nor ecological sense. Better to make an investment in a multi-modal regional public transit system that will serve people for years to come, reduce pollution, reduce loss of life from accidents, and revitalize SGV businesses because people will have more incentive to shop locally. Additionally, we as a society should be doing more to make it possible for people to live where they work/work where they live (and have a good quality of life doing so). 60 mi commutes to work via a freeway aren't good for anyone except car manufacturers and oil companies.
Reply
I don't believe only South Pasadena should have this quality of life, I believe every city deserves it. If other cities want a freeway moratorium and to put light rail, heavy rail and bike lanes in instead, that would be fantastic. We've already reached peak oil. Destroying beautiful historic homes & trees in order to build an expensive connector to prop up a paradigm that is in the midst of unraveling makes no economic nor ecological sense. Better to make an investment in a multi-modal regional public transit system that will serve people for years to come, reduce pollution, reduce loss of life from accidents, and revitalize SGV businesses because people will have more incentive to shop locally. Additionally, we as a society should be doing more to make it possible for people to live where they work/work where they live (and have a good quality of life doing so). 60 mi commutes to work via a freeway aren't good for anyone except car manufacturers and oil companies.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Spidra, thanks for your energy consciousness.
Arthritic old ladies like me are not going to ride a bike to work. Never
going to happen. I'm blessed to live in Monrovia, where we have the
210, and, by the way, in about a year, thanks to the fortitude and
forsight of our City Council, we will have a Gold Line Station as well.
For now, I drive to the Madre Station to catch the Gold Line. I would
have walked a block and taken a bus, but Metro decided to do away with
the line right after I moved here. The other options you have delineated
are great, and please do them while you can. Regrettably, not everyone
can. As a strident Gold Line rider, however, I can tell you we sure know
when gas prices rise because there's hardly a parking space to be had
for all the SUVs and mini-vans that suddenly appear at the station.
Vicki Kea
Gayle, I'm an arthritic old lady too. This is more
than just South Pasadena (I don't live there). And thank Ara Najarian
for your Gold Line Station. We all know that not everyone can bike or
walk. The purpose of our fight isn't to close the freeway. The purpose
is to lessen the traffic, which will increase if the tunnel is put in.
It will increase for all cities along the foothills and all the smog
from that tunnel will back up against our fair towns. So if the traffic
lessens by a combination of light rail, bikes, and walkways, then old
arthritic ladies like us won't be backed up in traffic. And don't
forget, you can drive a hybrid or a plug-in for those of us who need the
use of a vehicle. We're not out to get you whether you believe it or
not. Please take a look at no710.com and see the real reasons we are
against the tollway tunnel.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Vicki, from one gimpy old gal to another, thanks
for your suggestions. But remember, we don't all have places to plug in
our electric vehicles and are not in the market to replace our vehicles
because repair and keep going is much more cost effective since we do
not do a whole lot of driving due to the light rail.
But, dear friend, if you do not think there is a direct cause and effect between the high price of fuel and the extra mileage that trucks must take because there is not such a corridor, and that we're all paying for it in countless ways, not the least of which are the foodstuffs we put on our tables or the clothing on our backs, I don't want to shatter any paradigms. I sounded in here initially because Chris has done some stellar things that have been good for the common citizen. His first action had to do with jobs. He helped to champion another that had to do with paycheck loan companies. I've seen a couple of others. He's been good. I did some more digging based on the SoPas moderator's inquiry. He had supported the 710, but was pro EIR. He didn't specifically answer somebody's questions, but the reason I finally told you guys what the neighbors think is because it became a bully pulpit. Those who do not think like me must be against me kind of mindset, and that's silly. By the way, what is the replacement cost on that hybrid battery? The next car I buy will be my absolute last, and I don't want to have to rebuy it for a battery.
But, dear friend, if you do not think there is a direct cause and effect between the high price of fuel and the extra mileage that trucks must take because there is not such a corridor, and that we're all paying for it in countless ways, not the least of which are the foodstuffs we put on our tables or the clothing on our backs, I don't want to shatter any paradigms. I sounded in here initially because Chris has done some stellar things that have been good for the common citizen. His first action had to do with jobs. He helped to champion another that had to do with paycheck loan companies. I've seen a couple of others. He's been good. I did some more digging based on the SoPas moderator's inquiry. He had supported the 710, but was pro EIR. He didn't specifically answer somebody's questions, but the reason I finally told you guys what the neighbors think is because it became a bully pulpit. Those who do not think like me must be against me kind of mindset, and that's silly. By the way, what is the replacement cost on that hybrid battery? The next car I buy will be my absolute last, and I don't want to have to rebuy it for a battery.
Vicki Kea
Gayle, An example is that in the State of
California, a 2013 Prius battery is warrantied for 10 years, no
prorating, so if it craps out at 9 years 11 months, you are covered in
full. There is a charging station at 1440 S. California Avenue, Monrovia
(Southern California Edison Service Center). One can modify an
electrical outlet to charge the vehicle in one's garage. Replacement
battery could cost about $2500. I'm sure you could purchase an extended
warranty after the 10-year warranty expires. Going hybrid or plug-in is
not such a scary proposition.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Vicki, I've been thinking about your contention
that the tunnel will increase smog levels. I don't believe that to be
so. I believe the same proximate volume of cargo traffic will occur
throughout the region but on a more direct basis. Right now, the burden
for pollution is being born heavily along the 15, 57, 605, and 2
corridors. We, in Monrovia, abut the hills and would be most heavily
impacted by incremental pollution that could not escape our topography.
The fiscal cost associated with winnowing the avenues available for
transit is that huge trucks are funneled into the same roadways and
destructive to the highways themselves. They are also destructive to
city streets when rerouted because ultimately a merchandiser has to get
to a market point to offload. In order to provide goods to the stores in
South Pas, any potential negative consequences have already been
largely rerouted to the surrounding communities. This may help "the
quality of life" in South Pas, but does it not also have a
responsibility to the rest of the area?
Vicki Kea
Gayle, so then does it not make sense to *not*
build a tunnel that will increase truck traffic? You are correct. Heavy
trucks do spew toxic fumes. Our topography does trap the smog. More
vehicles that can't get through the 210 after 2:00 pm will take surface
streets. More traffic on the freeway and the streets will begin to
destroy the roadway. Goods by heavy rail makes more sense. Take
destructive trucks off the highways, off the streets, and put the
containers onto heavy rail. I know Metro says they can "scrub" the air
inside the tunnel (experts in air quality management have already
studied this, and the smallest most dangerous particulates cannot be
scrubbed). However, what happens when the trucks and vehicles exit the
tunnel? The air outside the tunnel cannot be scrubbed. An extra 180,000
trucks and cars on our 210 freeway. This does not seem practical, as the
210 is already a parking lot by 2:00 pm. Metro's own study says the
tunnel will open at service level F. They grade this stuff like a report
card, so you know what a level F is. It means it opens at a failing
level. Remember, the trucks and vehicles have to go somewhere after they
exit the tunnel that will surface at the only trauma center in the
area, Huntington Hospital, a sensitive receptor. They can only go
northwest on the 210 or east on the 210. No other way. There is no way
out of the tunnel once in. You enter or exit either in Pasadena or El
Sereno. No exits or entrances between.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Vicki, heavy rail makes sense to a point as do
cargo ships. Massive quantities of products transported in bulk and then
stepped down at warehousing areas to be disbursed across the area. I
don't suspect you're suggesting we put heavy rail through South
Pasadena, are you? The goods still have to get from the warehouse to the
markets and it does not make business sense to have more warehouses.
How is the product supposed to get from the mass market container (Long
Beach or rail yard) to the targeted commercial vendor? You see, we have
at least the same amount of pollutants because the products will get
there anyway, and we share the same ambient air issues and, with us
having the mountains directly behind us (a bear may go over that
mountain, but it's harder to get the smog to go and dissipate), but
effectively, your solution is to make the air quality impacts, all
things being equal, someone else's problem. The trucks can use
thoroughfares that go through other communities and all the other
traffic problems that go with. I still will tell you there is an
incremental cost borne by the rest of the Southern California community
for vehicles having to be rerouted and take the long way from Point A to
Point B to get product to market. The rest of us are paying for your
convenience of not having such an interconnection, and that seems to be
just fine with South Pas.
Donna Evans
Do any of you folks happen to have at the ready a link where Holden clearly states his position on the 710?
Reply
Gayle M. Montgomery
I just did some digging on this and found a Patch
interview with then candidate Chris. He speaks about the tunnel and
thinks it has merit but says there should be an EIR (Environmental
Impact Report). Seems to me there is no harm in that except to South
Pasadenans who are concerned that the EIR will not hold up their claims.
http://altadena.patch.com/articles/holden-profile
Vicki Kea
Here is an article, Donna: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/urban-game-changer/2012/oct/31/chris-holden-plays-possum-he-ignores-constituents-/
Also where any of the Pasadena City Council meetings had the 710 on the agenda, you will find his stance. Steve Madison's forum on the 710 is posted on Facebook. In most of these forums/meetings, Holden hems and haws all around the subject, never giving a direct honest answer. You can find the past council meeting agendas and matching videos at the City of Pasadena website.
Also where any of the Pasadena City Council meetings had the 710 on the agenda, you will find his stance. Steve Madison's forum on the 710 is posted on Facebook. In most of these forums/meetings, Holden hems and haws all around the subject, never giving a direct honest answer. You can find the past council meeting agendas and matching videos at the City of Pasadena website.
Vicki Kea
Gayle, you assume that Metro is truthful and
transparent regarding the EIR. Metro is not. One should be wary to say
the very least.
reality check
"710 Freeway Plan Nears Federal OK" LA Times September 30, 1997 RICHARD WINTON and KEN ELLINGWOOD
In the past Assemblymember Holden was not as shy as he is now about his 710 freeway views.
Here is a quote from Holden that predates the tunnel(s) idea. At this time the concept of the 710 freeway was a surface route (gigantic swath cut through El Sereno, South Pasadena and Pasadena) obliterating the heart of those cities. When told the surface route freeway plan was nearing a federal OK, (then) Pasadena Mayor Chris Holden gladly asked: "Now the question is, [in] what decade will it be constructed?" http://articles.latimes.com/1997/sep/30/news/mn-37728
In the past Assemblymember Holden was not as shy as he is now about his 710 freeway views.
Here is a quote from Holden that predates the tunnel(s) idea. At this time the concept of the 710 freeway was a surface route (gigantic swath cut through El Sereno, South Pasadena and Pasadena) obliterating the heart of those cities. When told the surface route freeway plan was nearing a federal OK, (then) Pasadena Mayor Chris Holden gladly asked: "Now the question is, [in] what decade will it be constructed?" http://articles.latimes.com/1997/sep/30/news/mn-37728
Ron Rosen
Don't know of a link, Donna, but his views are
pretty well known. Also, our new Congresswoman, Judy Chu, wants the 710
completed. Kind of weird having Holden and Chu at out Birthday Party,
when they are at odds with most South Pasadenans on this important
issue. Adam Schiff is our "real" congressman.
Reply
Ron Rosen
Donna: Read the last question in this Patch article and there are also links in some of the comments. http://altadena.patch.com/articles/holden-profile
Reply
Ron Rosen
A lot of these people who really would like to see
he surface route now favor the tunnel, probably because of the
opposition to the surface route. Many fear that they will pull a
switcheroo and try to put the surface route through when the true cost
of a tunnel is ultimately calculated.
Reply
gitinjiggywitit
Sam, sometimes people hit the wrong button without
realizing it, as I have. If you hit the reply button in someones box,
but then hit reply again instead of submit, it seems to vanish. Just hit
the same reply button, and it will reopen the box with your comment.
Then hit the submit below.
Sam Burgess
Hi Donna,
Well, I'll try again. I just posted a comment (within the allotted characters) and it disappeared.
Sam
Reply
Well, I'll try again. I just posted a comment (within the allotted characters) and it disappeared.
Sam
gitinjiggywitit
Forgive no humor .....I am trying to learn from you
so I am not so "ignorant" as you descibe me. So I am memorizing you
wonderful words of wisdom below.
Geez Gail, you are so wrong and so rude in what you have said. I hope for Chris Holden's sake you resign
6:04 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
No gitinjiggywitit, both Gail and you are very wrong. Everyone is entitled to be ignorant, but you abuse the privilege
There ya go folks, Holden's mouth piece, Gayle
Reply
Geez Gail, you are so wrong and so rude in what you have said. I hope for Chris Holden's sake you resign
6:04 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
No gitinjiggywitit, both Gail and you are very wrong. Everyone is entitled to be ignorant, but you abuse the privilege
There ya go folks, Holden's mouth piece, Gayle
gitinjiggywitit
just to be clear here, The above comments were
taken quotes from someone who was jabbing at Gayle and I,
gitinjiggywitit. I was not calling Gayle anthying. Just pretend you see a
lot of these " " " " " " Quote marks up there.
As for the freeway, It's been going on forever:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_710
My dear old mom would rather the "red car" comes back, instead of the freeway.
They operated until 1961.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Los_Angeles_Pacific_Electric_Railways_(Red_Cars).svg
Lake avenue before almost everyone's time...1916
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolibraryarchive/8006757641/
As for the freeway, It's been going on forever:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_710
My dear old mom would rather the "red car" comes back, instead of the freeway.
They operated until 1961.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Los_Angeles_Pacific_Electric_Railways_(Red_Cars).svg
Lake avenue before almost everyone's time...1916
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolibraryarchive/8006757641/
Gayle M. Montgomery
Jig, I knew that. I hope you're clarifying for the
others. From what I've seen, the Red Car was a really cool thing. Mama
is probably right.
Sam Burgess
Forgive my humor,
Please do not let Gayle get to you. Those of us who have followed Patch for a while know Gayle as a self-righteous, full-of-herself human being.
As to Chris Holden and his position on the extension of the North (SR710) Long Beach Freeway:
Assemblyman Holden has for the last 25 years been one of the most vocal proponents of extending the 710. As a councilman he helped to write Pasadena''s 2001 Measure A putting the City of Pasadena on record as favoring the 710 extension. This after the Pasadena City Council, over his objection, went on record as opposed to the freeway.
In early 2011, when then Councilman Holden announced his intention to run for assembly he conveniently modified his position by stating he would oppose the tunnel if it allowed trucks. Well, he knows (as stated by Cal-Trans) that trucks will be allowed in the tunnels and onto the 210. In short he has given himself an out.
Councilman Holden's earlier statement that we should wait for an EIR was simply a delaying tactic used during the assembly campaign. This so he would not have to answer to his previous position.
(con't on page 2)
Reply
Please do not let Gayle get to you. Those of us who have followed Patch for a while know Gayle as a self-righteous, full-of-herself human being.
As to Chris Holden and his position on the extension of the North (SR710) Long Beach Freeway:
Assemblyman Holden has for the last 25 years been one of the most vocal proponents of extending the 710. As a councilman he helped to write Pasadena''s 2001 Measure A putting the City of Pasadena on record as favoring the 710 extension. This after the Pasadena City Council, over his objection, went on record as opposed to the freeway.
In early 2011, when then Councilman Holden announced his intention to run for assembly he conveniently modified his position by stating he would oppose the tunnel if it allowed trucks. Well, he knows (as stated by Cal-Trans) that trucks will be allowed in the tunnels and onto the 210. In short he has given himself an out.
Councilman Holden's earlier statement that we should wait for an EIR was simply a delaying tactic used during the assembly campaign. This so he would not have to answer to his previous position.
(con't on page 2)
gitinjiggywitit
sam, actually I was making a jab at Mr "forgive my humor"
Gayle and I are good, more often on opposing sides.....but good.
Gayle and I are good, more often on opposing sides.....but good.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Sam, Sam, Sam. Really, Sam? You say these things as
though a) you are qualified to judge; b) do not mirror them yourself,
and c) they are a bad thing. "self-righteous, full-of-herself human
being" Jiggy and I are just fine, and you're not going to pin a tail on
me for whatever you believe I am and am not.
Gayle M. Montgomery
And Jiggy, for the record, Sam had some silly idea
in times past that I was a pony. He kept trying to ride me off the Patch
and tried to stay on my tail long past the time he should simply have
moved on. Please let him know the pony rides are over.
Forgive my humor
I'm quite certain, Gail, that neither Sam nor I would do ponies the disservice of confusing you for one.
Sam Burgess
(page 2):
As to the North (SR710) Long Beach Freeway extension itself:
The 710 extension is not about South Pasadena--or El Sereno--or Pasadena. The extension is and always has been about the entire region--it is a regional issue. The 710 proposal is a social, economic and environmental disaster waiting to happen.
One only has to travel the entire Long Beach Freeway to see the damage it now does to the politically powerless citizens living in the vicinity of the present freeway. With the expansion (widening) of the I-710 South and the extension of the SR 710 North (TOLL TUNNELS) this social and environmental damage will extend throughout the entire San Gabriel Valley and to the desert.
By Cal-Trans own statements (at community meetings) and power point presentations the widening and extension of the 710 will bring not only autos but freight trucks from the ports. Cal-Trans clearly states that an ADDITIONAL 180,000 autos and trucks will enter the 210 from the proposed tunnels.
And the costs (economics)? Construction will be $10 Billion plus. And this does not take into account the 10's of millions of annual dollors needed for continued maintenance once the tunnels open.
There are better options:
Direct ship to freight RAIL to move goods from the ports. This is the Alameda Corridor and the Alameda Corridor East. Multi-modal transportation (i.e. light rail, buses, etc)
(con't on page 3)
Reply
As to the North (SR710) Long Beach Freeway extension itself:
The 710 extension is not about South Pasadena--or El Sereno--or Pasadena. The extension is and always has been about the entire region--it is a regional issue. The 710 proposal is a social, economic and environmental disaster waiting to happen.
One only has to travel the entire Long Beach Freeway to see the damage it now does to the politically powerless citizens living in the vicinity of the present freeway. With the expansion (widening) of the I-710 South and the extension of the SR 710 North (TOLL TUNNELS) this social and environmental damage will extend throughout the entire San Gabriel Valley and to the desert.
By Cal-Trans own statements (at community meetings) and power point presentations the widening and extension of the 710 will bring not only autos but freight trucks from the ports. Cal-Trans clearly states that an ADDITIONAL 180,000 autos and trucks will enter the 210 from the proposed tunnels.
And the costs (economics)? Construction will be $10 Billion plus. And this does not take into account the 10's of millions of annual dollors needed for continued maintenance once the tunnels open.
There are better options:
Direct ship to freight RAIL to move goods from the ports. This is the Alameda Corridor and the Alameda Corridor East. Multi-modal transportation (i.e. light rail, buses, etc)
(con't on page 3)
Sam Burgess
(page 3)
Now to Gayles woefully ignorant statement that South Pasaden fought the Gold LIne.
Nothing could be further from the truth. From the beginning South Pasadena supported Light Rail. The city simply asked to be given the same considerations as the cities of Los Angeles and Pasadena.
I give you an example. The naming of the Gold Line station in South Pasadena. The city asked for the name to be the South Pasadena Station. The powers that be said all the stations would have names of streets nearest the station. Thus, the Mission Street Station. However, it seems someone forgot to hold Los Angeles to that requirement.
Let's look at the names given to the stations in the City of Los Angeles (going north): Union Station (not Alameda St.); China Town (not French St.); Cypress Park/Lincoln Heights (not Ave. 26); Heritage Square (not Marmion Way); Southwest Museum (not Figueroa St); Highland Park (not Ave 57)---and then, as you enter South Pasadena, Mission STREET.
Yes, the Mission Street station has now been changed to the South Pasadena Station but this came only AFTER the Gold Line was extended to East Los Angeles and those stations were given names such as Mariachi Plaza. The powers that be finally understood what South Pasadena had been saying from day one.
There are other examples but 3 pages are enough, so......bye
Reply
Now to Gayles woefully ignorant statement that South Pasaden fought the Gold LIne.
Nothing could be further from the truth. From the beginning South Pasadena supported Light Rail. The city simply asked to be given the same considerations as the cities of Los Angeles and Pasadena.
I give you an example. The naming of the Gold Line station in South Pasadena. The city asked for the name to be the South Pasadena Station. The powers that be said all the stations would have names of streets nearest the station. Thus, the Mission Street Station. However, it seems someone forgot to hold Los Angeles to that requirement.
Let's look at the names given to the stations in the City of Los Angeles (going north): Union Station (not Alameda St.); China Town (not French St.); Cypress Park/Lincoln Heights (not Ave. 26); Heritage Square (not Marmion Way); Southwest Museum (not Figueroa St); Highland Park (not Ave 57)---and then, as you enter South Pasadena, Mission STREET.
Yes, the Mission Street station has now been changed to the South Pasadena Station but this came only AFTER the Gold Line was extended to East Los Angeles and those stations were given names such as Mariachi Plaza. The powers that be finally understood what South Pasadena had been saying from day one.
There are other examples but 3 pages are enough, so......bye
david heimark
Well said.
I've always maintained that if someone is a jerk and they ask you to get them to Long Beach, you send them via the 710. That anyone would want to run that traffic through our region baffles me.
The Long Beach and Los Angeles Harbor commissions have, umm... I dunno, a little clout in the local political arena and they will not stop until they get this linkage done.
Ya wanna know why? Because China and other significant trading partners have issued the edict that it be done. In order to better facilitate trade.
Otherwise? Mexico, Oakland, Seattle and Vancouver are slobbering over themselves to get a piece of that action.
Holden is wimp doom. I'd rather have a leader than another chump sucking the teat of government.
I've always maintained that if someone is a jerk and they ask you to get them to Long Beach, you send them via the 710. That anyone would want to run that traffic through our region baffles me.
The Long Beach and Los Angeles Harbor commissions have, umm... I dunno, a little clout in the local political arena and they will not stop until they get this linkage done.
Ya wanna know why? Because China and other significant trading partners have issued the edict that it be done. In order to better facilitate trade.
Otherwise? Mexico, Oakland, Seattle and Vancouver are slobbering over themselves to get a piece of that action.
Holden is wimp doom. I'd rather have a leader than another chump sucking the teat of government.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Now, Sam, dear, it is you who is woefully ignorant
when it comes to the Gold Line. I have been riding it since it's
inception. South Pasadena caterwauled loudly that the train went too
fast was too noisy and put all kinds of impedance on the Gold Line as it
deigned to go through the City. The intersection at Mission is
dangerous, and the noises were necessary to alert drivers not accustomed
to having such a station stop. It was a public safety issue. But having
to go through the hoops that South Pas put in place at the inception
meant that much of the ridership could not count on a consistent
scheduling of the train to know it would almost always take X amount of
time from Point A to Point B until it was eventually worked out, and it
took quite a while to resolve. I don't know what station you get on or
where you sat, but many riders commented upon it at the time. It was,
for that reason, some of the riders took exception to the City then
switching its position and trying to lure ridership to the town and its
activities.
So save your WOEFUL exaggerations, Sam. To the contrary, you do not have all the answers or the experience when it comes to the train.
So save your WOEFUL exaggerations, Sam. To the contrary, you do not have all the answers or the experience when it comes to the train.
SteveB
When the 210 extension opened, traffic on the
east-west portion went from great to awful. I'd say those of us along
the 210 had our quality of life degraded - but it is hard to argue there
wasn't a need, given its heavy use.
Similarly, given the number of times I've driven down Fremont to get to the 710 and the amount of traffic doing likewise, I dare say the extension would be of benefit to the region's highway system. If someone has an argument why it would not be good from a regional perspective, that would be interesting to hear. Otherwise, I suspect most of the opponents here are expressing some degree of nimbyism, with fervor proportional to their nearness to the proposed extension. Now, whether it is cost effective to do so is another matter entirely. With our current financial state, it may not make economic sense.
Reply
Similarly, given the number of times I've driven down Fremont to get to the 710 and the amount of traffic doing likewise, I dare say the extension would be of benefit to the region's highway system. If someone has an argument why it would not be good from a regional perspective, that would be interesting to hear. Otherwise, I suspect most of the opponents here are expressing some degree of nimbyism, with fervor proportional to their nearness to the proposed extension. Now, whether it is cost effective to do so is another matter entirely. With our current financial state, it may not make economic sense.
Tao
Steve,
The reason is that the tunnel is not of benefit from a regional perspective is that it's a bad way to move goods. If you look at the future plans currently being hatched for freeways you need to also consider the motives behind them.
There is a plan in the works to quadruple the size of the Ports. Shipping interests are very powerful. They want to use the freeway system for goods movement. Today there are 32,000 daily cargo trucks emanating from the ports using this this whole region's freeway system. The ports have estimated that they will increase that burden to 140,000 a day. Shippers (behind the scenes with groups like Mobility 21 etc) are rewriting laws to promote their shipping needs - even using our tax dollars to create TURCK ONLY LANES. The other part of the scheme is aimed at removing commuters (cars) off of the freeway system by the use of tolls (you can see this already in the works) so they can make use our freeways for their supply chain. These freeway tolls will NOT make the city streets surrounding freeways better they will make them worse by diverting those cars and independent truckers who can't afford the cost.
No matter how you look at it, adding 140,000 Daily cargo trucks to the freeways system will degrade the air we breathe and add congestion. Check out China's air pollution problem and you will get an idea of what California will look like if we allow shippers and the politicians they have in their pockets to dictate our future.
The reason is that the tunnel is not of benefit from a regional perspective is that it's a bad way to move goods. If you look at the future plans currently being hatched for freeways you need to also consider the motives behind them.
There is a plan in the works to quadruple the size of the Ports. Shipping interests are very powerful. They want to use the freeway system for goods movement. Today there are 32,000 daily cargo trucks emanating from the ports using this this whole region's freeway system. The ports have estimated that they will increase that burden to 140,000 a day. Shippers (behind the scenes with groups like Mobility 21 etc) are rewriting laws to promote their shipping needs - even using our tax dollars to create TURCK ONLY LANES. The other part of the scheme is aimed at removing commuters (cars) off of the freeway system by the use of tolls (you can see this already in the works) so they can make use our freeways for their supply chain. These freeway tolls will NOT make the city streets surrounding freeways better they will make them worse by diverting those cars and independent truckers who can't afford the cost.
No matter how you look at it, adding 140,000 Daily cargo trucks to the freeways system will degrade the air we breathe and add congestion. Check out China's air pollution problem and you will get an idea of what California will look like if we allow shippers and the politicians they have in their pockets to dictate our future.
SteveB
Thanks - I would agree that our already
overburdened regional highways should not be further burdened by
additional cargo truck traffic. If cargo trucks were banned from using
a 710 extension, would that change your opinion of the extension? It
still seems to me that it would be of benefit for commuter traffic.
Vicki Kea
There is a need for transport, but not this way.
There are better ways. Metro is not considering those alternatives,
although they say they are. Meaning that if the 210 build, closing the
gap to the 15 degraded the quality of life along the 210 and the commute
went from great to awful in a short time, then it is not successful.
Build a road and they will come. A new alternative for transport would
have been a better choice so that some vehicles would be off the
roadway. This 710 project is being driven by much more than our
commutes. Please review the information at the link below. http://www.no710.com/_resources/710Notebook-1-2013.pdf
Vicki Kea
Steve, the tunnel is also not viable monetarily.
Safety is a huge issue since the twin-bore double-decker tunnels will be
bored through three earthquake faults and two aquifers. No exits
between the two portals is extremely dangerous in cases of emergency
situations. Air pollution is another negative factor. See this notebook.
I know it is extremely long and detailed. Take some time to read a
little each day: http://www.no710.com/_resources/710Notebook-1-2013.pdf
Tao
Steve, banning trucks from the tunnel is a red
herring that METRO and Holden keep tossing out there. But the hidden
purpose (according to Metro) backed up by the financial studies they've
done contradict that ever happening.
1. According to Metro (as explained in their news release), the 710 tunnels are being built specifically for trucks: http://tinyurl.com/adu5346
"While this year's 18 projects and the I-405 are designed primarily to give people a better commute, three other high-profile projects in various planning stages but not yet scheduled, address the demands of commerce -- specifically goods movement from the twin ports of L.A. and Long Beach, the two busiest ports in the country, and goods movement from California's Central Valley, America's bread basket."..."The 710 north gap closure between the I-10 and the I-210 would complete the natural goods corridor that was begun several decades ago." (Doug Failing, executive director of highway programs Metro)
2 .710 tunnels will not "pencil out" unless they have the income of tolls from trucks: http://tinyurl.com/cemhbah
Even with trucks, if the tunnels estimated capital expenditures exceed 6.3 billion (2007$ and likely will total 24 B upon completion), it will have to be subsidized by tax payers otherwise the tolls would be astronomical : http://tinyurl.com/coyvq45
1. According to Metro (as explained in their news release), the 710 tunnels are being built specifically for trucks: http://tinyurl.com/adu5346
"While this year's 18 projects and the I-405 are designed primarily to give people a better commute, three other high-profile projects in various planning stages but not yet scheduled, address the demands of commerce -- specifically goods movement from the twin ports of L.A. and Long Beach, the two busiest ports in the country, and goods movement from California's Central Valley, America's bread basket."..."The 710 north gap closure between the I-10 and the I-210 would complete the natural goods corridor that was begun several decades ago." (Doug Failing, executive director of highway programs Metro)
2 .710 tunnels will not "pencil out" unless they have the income of tolls from trucks: http://tinyurl.com/cemhbah
Even with trucks, if the tunnels estimated capital expenditures exceed 6.3 billion (2007$ and likely will total 24 B upon completion), it will have to be subsidized by tax payers otherwise the tolls would be astronomical : http://tinyurl.com/coyvq45
SteveB
Well, there you go - if you can extract a
concession that the 710 extension will not allow cargo trucks and that
makes the extension financially impractical, you've accomplished your
goal.
@Vicki, I find your "build a road and they will come" assessment lacking, at least, with regards to the 210 extension - the increase in traffic once the extension was completed was sudden, i.e., not added vehicles for the region, but more likely traffic now taking a better route than the 10 or 60. In other words, relieving pressure off other regional highways. Bad for us, good for others.
@Vicki, I find your "build a road and they will come" assessment lacking, at least, with regards to the 210 extension - the increase in traffic once the extension was completed was sudden, i.e., not added vehicles for the region, but more likely traffic now taking a better route than the 10 or 60. In other words, relieving pressure off other regional highways. Bad for us, good for others.
Vicki Kea
SteveB, regarding "build and they will come," see this info regarding induced traffic: http://www.no710.com/_better_solutions_ls/1-repurpose_the_710/highway-expansion-myth.pdf
gitinjiggywitit
Freeways--congestion--etc
Before the 210 freeway went through pasadena, Wodbury road was congested, as people used it race across to NewYork dr.- foothil BLVD for the east-- west route.
When the freeway opened in the early seventies, It did not have a slow rush hour f 7 or 8 years. But what happened is, a change in peoples job, and houses. Suddenly someone who worked in Glendale could move to Glendora for a cheaper house, and still work in Glendale, Alot of houses were built along the cities of the 210. They mostly would of been built anyway. But having the 210 in place set up the commuting possibilities. That with the general growing population, by the time the 1981 recession ended, the freeway became congested. From what I remember as a kid, the traffic on the streets here never increased back to the pre freeway days. But the freeway did increase the overall commute rides east-west by 50 times over the last 40 years.
Before the 210 freeway went through pasadena, Wodbury road was congested, as people used it race across to NewYork dr.- foothil BLVD for the east-- west route.
When the freeway opened in the early seventies, It did not have a slow rush hour f 7 or 8 years. But what happened is, a change in peoples job, and houses. Suddenly someone who worked in Glendale could move to Glendora for a cheaper house, and still work in Glendale, Alot of houses were built along the cities of the 210. They mostly would of been built anyway. But having the 210 in place set up the commuting possibilities. That with the general growing population, by the time the 1981 recession ended, the freeway became congested. From what I remember as a kid, the traffic on the streets here never increased back to the pre freeway days. But the freeway did increase the overall commute rides east-west by 50 times over the last 40 years.
Ron Rosen
I think, SteveB, that what was originally nimbyism,
has led to much knowledge about alternative to freeways. We need to
start looking at new alternatives. Most of the politicians who support
the 710 connection seem to be locked into old ways and unwilling to see
the need for new paradigms.
Reply
Nick Yates
We have been opposed to the Tunnel for years as
many other have, because we want the money spent on mass transit, We
don't want more exhaust and we want to be able to keep the various
communities that have miraculously begun to flourish in these hard
times, in spite of Big Businesses' preferences for fossil fuels. Rail
Rail Rail.
Reply
Gayle M. Montgomery
Nick, I'm with you on the rail all the way, but how
do you move commerce? I encourage as many as I can at the office to use
mass transit and show them the convenience that could be available. But
I don't think you want cargo on that transit. When I have to travel to
San Diego for biz, I most often take the Surfliner. Surfliner uses
tracks owned by other entities and, when cargo trains need to pass, we
are sometimes delayed because they have the right of way. You can get a
lot of cargo to nexus points on rail, but they still have to go from
that hub to various points. Having those big trucks off of most city
streets saves the streets and saves lives in the long run.
Vicki Kea
I think there is a little bit of a mix-up. There
are two kinds of big rigs on the road. One type is a container truck
that hauls the containers from the ships to distribution centers. There
second type of big rig are those that you see on the road, such as Vons,
Walmart, Target, etc. that bring goods to the businesses. The purpose
of the 710 tunnel is to move goods by container truck from the ports to
distribution centers in places that are up in the high desert. So we
would not be moving commerce. We would be removing the container trucks
by putting the containers on heavy rail. So basically, the tunnel will
be depositing truck traffic from the ports to our Foothill doorsteps to
go to points in the high desert. Heavy rail is the more prudent,
environmentally and monetarily. Remember, if you build a
highway/freeway/tollway, they will come whether it is needed or not as
evidenced by the completion of the 210. It did nothing to relieve
traffic. If we were to widen the 210 today, thinking that it will
alleviate traffic, we would find that in a very short time, those lanes
will also be clogged with no traffic relief. Therefore, adding more
roadways or widening roadways doesn't work to alleviate traffic and
studies have been done on the issue. Please take a look at this site. It
is a very interesting take on how the ports would work and goods moved:
http://gridlogisticsinc.com/
No, I do not work for GRID Logistics.
No, I do not work for GRID Logistics.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Again, Vickie, I would directly ask you, are you
then in favor of having heavy rail go through South Pasadena as a direct
route from the ports? What is the cost to build such rail, and who
bears responsibility for that expense. What is the safety of the
existing railways. On the San Bernardino Metrolink line, on very warm
days, they have to stop the train in places like Fontana and do a bus
bridge because the rails become too heated to safely transport. And
that's just people. What kind of infrastructure do we have existing to
support this, and at what cost? Finally, the last time I looked, the
High Desert is still part of the California and specifically Southern
California economy. Do we just thumb our nose and say not my problem, or
do we try to do things to fortify the economy of our state? An improved
high desert may lure additional businesses and spur the California
economy which has been lagging? It's a lot more complex than simply
stick it on the train and la la la, I don't wanna think about it.
Vicki Kea
No, Gayle, I'm not suggesting heavy rail from El
Sereno to Pasadena. Did you get a chance to review the GRID Logistics
site? Think outside the box. A whole new approach from the ports (the
beginning) to the end (goods movement to hubs). A new system. Why use
trucks at the ports to haul the containers to a train when the
containers can be put directly on a train or conveyor? See the proposed
routes at GRID Logistics. This is not the only idea out there. I'm just
using this one as an example. Here is a good map of the Alameda
Corridor and Alameda Corridor East. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.theaceproject.org/photo/intermodel1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.theaceproject.org/&h=822&w=1114&sz=476&tbnid=Dh37W9cxC0ooPM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=124&zoom=1&usg=__OC4S9BF5mfjvRx-lPzKkE7oQWoU=&docid=0RIwAMXVwRjk3M&sa=X&ei=_oo5UbnOLu3iyAH-tYHoDg&ved=0CFEQ9QEwAw&dur=1160
Gayle M. Montgomery
Vickie, again SoPas expects to be unjustly enriched
by diverting the potential for traffic to go through your area and
transferring it to some other community. At 60 years of age, I have been
having to find detours and shortcuts through South Pasadena for decades
from the Alhambra area to Pasadena or from LA to other parts of the
SGV. For that matter, I had even considered relocating to SoPas but was
put off by the actions of the citizenry with respect to the train in
motion and the fact that, along the initial route, SoPas had a fee-based
parking structure which would have had added an incremental expense to
the commute.
Vicki Kea
Gayle, I realize that one might think that this is a
commuter issue, but it is not. It is driven by goods movement. I would
be interested if you would be wiling to pay up to $15.00 per trip
through the tunnel for a commute between Pasadena and El Sereno, because
that is what it will take to pay back the foreign private investor.
What if you want to go somewhere between the two portals? No can do. You
enter the tunnel in Pasadena and you come out in El Sereno. Then you
have to double back. Vice versa for those entering the tunnel at the
other end. What happens to those who don't want or cannot pay the toll?
They take the streets. What if truckers don't want to pay the toll. The
trucks take the streets. The better solution is taking traffic off the
road with better light rail, trolley cars (mom was right), and shuttles,
bike lanes, and pedestrian walkways to reduce congestion, and new and
innovative methods of moving goods from the ports to their destinations.
Vicki Kea
Please take a look at this notebook. As I noted in
another post, I know it is extremely long and detailed but if you want
to know about the 710 issue, it is all here and will be updated
periodically. Taking it in small chunks helps one to digest the info. http://www.no710.com/_resources/710Notebook-1-2013.pdf
Reply
Sam Burgess
...And now...back to the original point of this blog--What questions or concerns do we have for Assemblyman Holden.
Assemblyman Holden, you have stated you are opposed to allowing trucks in the proposed SR710 tunnel extension. Some of your constituents have taken this as saying you would oppose the tunnel if trucks were allowed.
Is this an accurate depiction of your statements and views?
There is a concern in your district--from Pasadena on the West to Upland in the East--that your support of using Measure R funds on the SR710 study--a study using 1950's, 20th century solutions to solve a 21st century transportation problem--is taking away funds that could be used to extend the Gold Line even further to the East.
Do these concerns accurately reflect your position?
Thank you for your response.
Reply
Assemblyman Holden, you have stated you are opposed to allowing trucks in the proposed SR710 tunnel extension. Some of your constituents have taken this as saying you would oppose the tunnel if trucks were allowed.
Is this an accurate depiction of your statements and views?
There is a concern in your district--from Pasadena on the West to Upland in the East--that your support of using Measure R funds on the SR710 study--a study using 1950's, 20th century solutions to solve a 21st century transportation problem--is taking away funds that could be used to extend the Gold Line even further to the East.
Do these concerns accurately reflect your position?
Thank you for your response.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Since the South Pasadena Posse is being ignorant in
its remarks about their role regarding the train at its onset, here is
an LA Times article that captures what I've been saying. There was no
secret the train was coming. It was built on an abandoned rail right of
way where there would have been significantly more noise with heavy
rail, and yet the article speaks to what the good citizenry said and did
about the train and how its ridership was impacted. Now maybe some of
the ballyhooers just didn't live there when that happened, and I will
stipulate to that. But it does not negate the fact that it did happen in
spite of the asinine remarks that I'm being ignorant in my remarks
about South Pasadena and its impedance. http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jul/02/local/me-noise2
Reply
Gayle M. Montgomery
The search query results also yielded this snippet
from 2006 in a presumably cached article, but, due to age, the original
article does not come through when you click on the link. Gold Line
introducing express service - DailyBulletin.com
www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3441676Jan 27, 2006 – But speed restrictions in South Pasadena and Los Angeles have led to slower service. Increased ridership on the Gold Line is seen as key to ...
Reply
www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3441676Jan 27, 2006 – But speed restrictions in South Pasadena and Los Angeles have led to slower service. Increased ridership on the Gold Line is seen as key to ...
Gayle M. Montgomery
I also found a third article that said that,
because the trains were set to run more swiftly, when the bar went down
and the bells rang, they had to ring longer for the slower speed which
was another reason the citizenry complained, and they perceived this as
punishment for not allowing the 710 freeway to be completed. That
article is almost 10 years old. So, for criminy sakes, South Pasadena,
do your homework and take some responsibility for your own actions.
Reply
True Freedom
The govts studies show that connecting the 710 will
yield more truck and auto traffic on the 210 east AND west (which
borders Altadena). With the San Gabes on one side and the 210 on two
other sides, Altadena can expect an increase in local air pollution with
the 710.
Reply
Forgive my humor
Gail, how much more of your venom and hatred can
you spew at the residents of South Pasadena? Does Chris Holden approve
of your behavior?
Reply
Gayle M. Montgomery
Forgive, I don't. Meet me at Chris's meet and greet
and we'll ask him together. I do not work for Holden, I do not hate
South Pasadena, but it's time you guys understood the actions of your
city have had on others, all your name calling aside. You are a bully,
but hey, I am not somebody you easily bully.
SteveB
Forgive your hypocrisy, 6 posts, 6 attacks, no contribution of substance.
1) "Geez Gail, you are so wrong and so rude in what you have said. I hope for Chris Holden's sake you resign." Let's take a look at FMH's posts and see who is being rude.
2) "No gitinjiggywitit, both Gail and you are very wrong. Everyone is entitled to be ignorant, but you abuse the privilege." Nice. Accusation of ignorance, no facts to support the assertion.
3) "There ya go folks, Holden's mouth piece, Gayle, admits the 710 freeway is being built to "provide a viable commercial corridor" (Cargo trucks galore). Inhale deeply folks - your health is not Holden's concern." Continuing the fiction that Gayle represents Holden.
4) "The trouble with you, Gail, is that you lack the power of reasoning but not the power to post false information." Amusing, isn't it, given the false assertion made in comment 3? Not to mention an apparent inability to rebut any of Gayle's "false information".
5) "I'm quite certain, Gail, that neither Sam nor I would do ponies the disservice of confusing you for one." Gratuitous insult, check.
6) "Gail, how much more of your venom and hatred can you spew at the residents of South Pasadena? Does Chris Holden approve of your behavior?"
Who is spewing venom and hatred? Others here may take exception with what Gayle posts, but they post counterpoints. You just post ... <insert expletive>.
Reply
1) "Geez Gail, you are so wrong and so rude in what you have said. I hope for Chris Holden's sake you resign." Let's take a look at FMH's posts and see who is being rude.
2) "No gitinjiggywitit, both Gail and you are very wrong. Everyone is entitled to be ignorant, but you abuse the privilege." Nice. Accusation of ignorance, no facts to support the assertion.
3) "There ya go folks, Holden's mouth piece, Gayle, admits the 710 freeway is being built to "provide a viable commercial corridor" (Cargo trucks galore). Inhale deeply folks - your health is not Holden's concern." Continuing the fiction that Gayle represents Holden.
4) "The trouble with you, Gail, is that you lack the power of reasoning but not the power to post false information." Amusing, isn't it, given the false assertion made in comment 3? Not to mention an apparent inability to rebut any of Gayle's "false information".
5) "I'm quite certain, Gail, that neither Sam nor I would do ponies the disservice of confusing you for one." Gratuitous insult, check.
6) "Gail, how much more of your venom and hatred can you spew at the residents of South Pasadena? Does Chris Holden approve of your behavior?"
Who is spewing venom and hatred? Others here may take exception with what Gayle posts, but they post counterpoints. You just post ... <insert expletive>.
Dominique LaTavion
@ Forgive My Humor
Of course Chris Holden approves of Gail's attacks on the city of South Pasadena. Chris Holden is certainly not a friend of that city considering how strongly he has advocated for the 710 freeway to tear right through it.
I saw them together at one of Holden's events and those two appear very well acquainted. If you Google Gail Montgomery's name you'll see she posts comments on almost every article about him like a paid spokesperson would do. I don't think a person not being paid to do this would spend that much time out of their assumed busy day unless they are paid. My guess is Montgomery is Holden's "Karl Rove" style strategist and she uses Rush Limbaugh's style while acting as Holden's spokesperson. You know like if both Holden and Montgomery can deny she represents him, then she can say any foul thing she wants using his talking points while Holden's hands appear nice and clean.
Chris Holden hiring an attack dog? Seems plausible to me.
Reply
Of course Chris Holden approves of Gail's attacks on the city of South Pasadena. Chris Holden is certainly not a friend of that city considering how strongly he has advocated for the 710 freeway to tear right through it.
I saw them together at one of Holden's events and those two appear very well acquainted. If you Google Gail Montgomery's name you'll see she posts comments on almost every article about him like a paid spokesperson would do. I don't think a person not being paid to do this would spend that much time out of their assumed busy day unless they are paid. My guess is Montgomery is Holden's "Karl Rove" style strategist and she uses Rush Limbaugh's style while acting as Holden's spokesperson. You know like if both Holden and Montgomery can deny she represents him, then she can say any foul thing she wants using his talking points while Holden's hands appear nice and clean.
Chris Holden hiring an attack dog? Seems plausible to me.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Dominique, you have put 2 and 2 together and come
up with 22. If you can prove that I work for Chris Holden or that I
served in his campaign staff in any way, I will give you a $100. Offer
expires when hell freezes over. You guys will say anything so that the
only message that comes through is no on 710 and anybody who supports
Chris for his work on jobs or in stoppying payday loan sheisters must be
a shill. Maybe you guys are suffering from lack of pollution or
something because you're brains are not connecting the dots here.
Gayle M. Montgomery
Now, as far as you having seen Chris and I
together, unless you were at the 41st District delegation election and
saw me shake his hand and thank him for taking action on the payday
loans, because I have seen other people's lives ruined behind them, you
really do not know what in the hades you are taking about. As far as
your Karl Rove and Rush Limbaugh commentary, when I'm through laughing,
I'll see if we cannot find you a good doctor for those delusions. That
is funny. Poor baby.
Marvion
Rename this thread: Got a Gripe? Gayle M. Montgomery, Robert Defulgentiis and Holden Want to Hear It.
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Paula Shatsky
No way will we tolerate the tunnel plans.
Paula Shatsky
Pasadena, Ca.