Purpose

To consolidate, disseminate, and gather information concerning the 710 expansion into our San Rafael neighborhood and into our surrounding neighborhoods. If you have an item that you would like posted on this blog, please e-mail the item to Peggy Drouet at pdrouet@earthlink.net

Saturday, March 9, 2013

"Tip-A-Cop"

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Saturday March 9, 2013, 5:21 PM

Pasadena Police Department - CA

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Community: Pasadena Police invites the community to "Tip-A-Cop" on March 14, 2013, at Hamburger Hamlet Restaurant. Proceeds benefit Special Olympics.
Hi Carla Riggs,
PASADENA POLICE TRADE IN DUTY BELTS FOR APRONS
Pasadena, CA – On Thursday, March 14, 2013, Pasadena Police employees will trade in their duty belts for aprons in support of the 9th Annual “Tip-A-Cop” to benefit Special Olympics. The event will take place at Hamburger Hamlet Restaurant, 214 South Lake Avenue, Pasadena, CA, between 5:00 PM and 9:00 PM.
We encourage you to dine with us on Match 14th and tip your favorite police waiter. All tips will be donated to the Special Olympics; a global non-profit organization serving 200 million people with intellectual disabilities by provides year-round sports training and athletic competition for children and adults.
“The Special Olympics have been transforming the lives of athletes with disabilities for years”, says Police Chief Phillip Sanchez. “Through the programs efforts, participants share the joy, pride and courage of participation. We are proud to support this cause.”
If you would like more information regarding this event, or to make a donation on behalf of Special Olympics Tip-A-Cop, please contact the Pasadena Police Department at (626) 744-7874 and 744-3871. For full details, view this message on the web.
Sent by Pasadena Police Department - CA
207 N Garfield Ave, Pasadena, CA 91101

Metro's soil sampling drilling in El Sereno--Joe Cano Video 

Published on Mar 9, 2013
This contractor crew were informed of the monitoring by the NO On 710 groups prior to starting up. Note the drilling rig was older & dirtier than the newer one used in So. Pasadena & this drilling unit was louder. Also, please note the amount of exhaust coming from the truck with the barrels for the soil samples as it drives away. Who do we report this to? Not only does El Sereno get extra noise, but we get an extra dose of pollution in the face as a bonus. I would like to know if this crew billed Metro for an entire workday. The notice of drilling stated all work starts at 8:00AM, but the rig arrived around 9:00AM, then the crew drove off the site at 10:30AM. Late to work early lunch. Nice work if you can get it.


 

Ron Kaye: Democracy wins a round

 http://www.glendalenewspress.com/opinion/tn-gnp-0310-ron-kaye-democracy-wins-a-round,0,7577253.story

By Ron Kaye, March 9, 2013

 
The setting was beautiful: a hill high above the intersection of the Santa Monica (10) and Long Beach (710) freeways, with panoramic views of downtown L.A. and much of the San Gabriel Valley, even on this dark and misty Thursday night.

But the scene inside the banquet room at Luminarias, the landmark restaurant in Monterey Park, was ugly — dozens of conspirators were set to finish the job they had started back in December when they launched a sneak attack on the reappointment of Glendale Councilman Ara Najarian to the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority board.

 The Cities Selection Committee, the governmental body that represents the 87 cities in the county that are not Los Angeles, had never before denied approval of any nominee from its four sectors to any agency — an action that left the nomination in limbo.
This is how I started my report on what led up to that dramatic moment:

“Things have come to a pretty pass when we would rather cannibalize each other than respect each other, would rather vilify our opponents than work out some kind of deal that balances our competing interests and values.”

Now the cannibals were ready to devour their prey.

The moment the Najarian appointment came up, an official from Palmdale in the back of the room shouted: “Chair, with all due respect on behalf of Mayor Jim Ledford … I would like to offer a substitute motion and refer this item back to the North County sector for further discussion.”

So began 40 minutes of cheers and jeers, anger and intrigue, parliamentary games and procedural flip-flops.

Here was a roomful of public officials representing 5 million people acting at times like democracy was an alien idea.

When the chair considered taking up the delay motion, Glendale Mayor Frank Quintero got sustained applause when he asked, “Don't we have bylaws?”

When he won his point, the delegate from Rosemead appealed the chair's reversal and Lancaster City Manager Mark Bozigian demanded to know, “What's wrong with sending it back to us so we can take another look at it?”

That set off a minute of boos and hoots and a shouts that he “should sit down,” since he is not an official delegate.


“I'll stand up as long as it takes,” he responded.

Pasadena attorney Chris Sutton — who had a videographer taping the meeting — warned that “it violates California law to consider items not on the agenda,” specifically the appeal and the motion to send the nomination back.

“Make no mistake that this whole disagreement is about Ara Najarian's opposition to the 710 tunnel,” said Mayor Pro Tem Laura Olhasso of La Cañada Flintridge.

“He made the mistake of asking hard questions like, ‘Is this the highest and best use for our tax dollars? Are there other alternatives to a tunnel that we can spend our constituent dollars to a better use?'” she said. “Because he has asked those questions strongly and vocally, he has been vilified by members of this group. This is not democracy.”


That's what this was all about — the “710 gap project,” the multi-billion-dollar tunnel extension to Pasadena that has been stymied for decades by opposition from communities all along the Arroyo Seco, where it is seen as a total waste of money, a threat to the quality of their lives, and a boondoggle that doesn't improve the transportation system.

To the lead conspirators — longtime Duarte councilman and MTA board member John Fasana and Alhambra Mayor Barbara Messina — the freeway extension is a boon to their communities, not a boondoggle.

But instead of delivering the death blow when he took the podium, Fasana — who had been quietly chatting with Najarian on and off — offered an alternative, an opportunity “to look for the common ground.”

They had agreed to let the 710 environmental study go forward so the decision can be made on the basis of costs, environmental impacts and transportation impacts, and to move forward on an ongoing dialogue among the four sectors on how they can work together for mutual benefit instead of endlessly being divided and conquered by Los Angeles, which gets the lion's share of the funds.


“In my view, for the last five years there is not majority support on the [MTA] board for the subway being the primary project in Los Angeles County. The only way to see that resources are diverted or allocated fairly … [is] if our cities can find a way to take the issues of the sub-regions and work together,” Fasana said. “We can be successful.... We can walk out of here with some unanimity, but also really strengthen the position of the 87 cities.”
To laughter, cheers and applause, Najarian began by acknowledged he was “at the center of this storm.”

“John's idea is a great one so that we four sector reps get together on a regular basis so that we become the big boys on the MTA, not the mayor of L.A.,” he said. “We're going to have that group of four and we'll know exactly what the South Bay needs, what San Gabriel needs, what Glendale, Burbank and even my good friends in Lancaster, Palmdale and Santa Clarita, need.

“Then, we can all pull for each other and we can all get the funding we need. That's the only way we going to succeed. If we stand divided as we are in this room … we're only playing into hands of whoever the new mayor of L.A. is.”

Messina, who has worked for the freeway extension for 28 years, echoed their sentiments, saying, “I want to see this region move forward and I am willing to compromise. I asked [Najarian] if he was a man of his word and he said, ‘Yes.' I'm going to trust him.”

Soon after, the chair decided the only vote that would be taken was on the nomination itself — not the substitute motion or the appeal.

Only Lancaster and Palmdale voted against Najarian, who got 316 votes — 62 more than needed — when the tedious process of population-weighted voting and tallying was complete.

I guess that's why the cliché about democracy and sausage-making still applies — when it works. And why there is chaos when it doesn't, as we have come to see all too often these days.

 

Got a Gripe? Holden Wants to Hear It

The San Gabriel Valley legislator wants to hear what concerns you about the 41st Assembly District and the state.


 http://pasadena-ca.patch.com/articles/holden-hosts-open-house-at-new-pasadena-office#comments

By Donna Evans, March 6, 2013



Assemblymember Chris Holden (D-Pasadena) is having an Open House and the public is invited.
Assemblymember Holden wants to share the new district office with residents of the 41st A.D. and hear from them about issues that concern the district and the state. His district includes South Pasadena, Altadena, Pasadena, Sierra Madre, San Marino, Monrovia, San Dimas, La Verne, Claremont, Upland and Alta Loma (part of Rancho Cucamonga).

A brief program will announce and honor the 41st Assembly “2013 Woman of the Year” and provide a brief update from the Capitol. Light refreshments will be served and the event is free and open to the public.

The open house takes place from 2-5 p.m. on Saturday, March 16 at the 41st Assembly District Office, 600 N. Rosemead Blvd., suite 117, Pasadena.

Gripes:


Tao

I have a gripe about Chris Holden! I'm not happy with the fact that Chris Holden is supposed to be representing the 41st Dist., and a majority of the cities in his district are against the freeway, yet he insists on promoting the freeway.
Now we are seeing the results of getting someone into office who is representing international big business shipping interests instead of the needs of his constituents and local businesses.
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Paula Shatsky

I am totally against any plans to build a 710 tunnel under Pasadena and the San Gabriel Valley extension. This would be an environmental disaster and is a politically driven project which will, despite claims to the opposite, rely on goods movement(trucks) and tolls.
No way will we tolerate the tunnel plans.
Paula Shatsky
Pasadena, Ca.
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Carrie Adrian

If you are representing the 41st Distr, then why do you continue to support the 710 710 tunnel under your District you were elected to represent? This project will be a disaster both environmentaly and financially. There are other ways to move goods from the Ports of Los Angeles that are more effective.
Carrie Adrian
South Pasadena
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Gayle M. Montgomery

I had the benefit of meeting Mr. Holden recently at a public event and am very impressed by the man and grateful for many of the legislative positions he has commenced on behalf of our district.
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CanyonMan

I too have met Holden, and although he is nice as pie to our faces, it doesn't excuse his stabbing us in the back with the 710 goods movement tunnels.
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Ivan G

I think the 710 tunnels will be good for the environment. They will take traffic off surface streets, thereby reducing traffic congestion and noxious exhausts. They also have the potential to reduce congestion on the Arroyo Seco Parkway.
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reality check

Educate yourself : http://www.no710.com
Sadly, Ivan, your guesses are not accurate. Don't guess, do your homework.
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Vicki Kea

Thank you, Reality Check! You beat me to it!
Ivan, show us an independent study that corroborates what you have stated above. Take a look at the web site mentioned by Reality Check. There is much for you to learn there. And when you do, please share with others.
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Eric

Vicki... slightly ironic that you ask for an independent study then suggest a web site entitled "no710.com" isn't it?
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Vicki Kea

Eric, no, it isn't ironic. None of the studies at the no710 site are funded by any no on 710 group. They are studies from independent entities such as universities and, in fact, Metro's own studies. We are a grassroots organization. None of us are paid, unlike Metro's "grassroots" organization. Instead of guessing at this, go visit no710.com. Then make an informed decision.
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Brandon

The information at that no710 doesn't convince me that the tunnel is bad. I like the idea of having a separate shipping route for big trucks if that's what the fuss is about. Anyone here who has read an EIR knows that in order to get an EIR approved the EIR must have logical alternatives which sometimes end up happening. I have worked on EIRs before and those aren't as biased as people make them out to be. I say EIR so much because I know there is one being done by a big Civil Engineering company and that is really the key to this project being approved or not. For those interested in the issue be there to comment on that, as they have to review and make comments back for that huge binder of reports.

Gayle M. Montgomery

I get it that South Pasadena does not want the 710 Freeway. That's been abundantly clear and long litigated. South Pasadena didn't want the Gold Line either and were pretty obnoxious when it finally was opened and went through town. They put all kinds of restrictions on the trains, and people stood along the line protesting. Now they've renamed the Mission Station and put banners up trying to lure folks to town.
South Pasadenans don't have any problems using the other freeways in the area that go through the rest of the towns. Maybe, just maybe, they should stick to city streets in all fairness. Don't get me wrong. It is a beautiful town, but it seems to want to have its cake and eat it too. Don't let commerce go through South Pasadena. Send it elsewhere and everybody else could just suck it up.
So do me a favor. Please stay off the 210 from the city lines for Monrovia, South Pasadenans, will you? We don't need the emissions.
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Forgive my humor

Geez Gail, you are so wrong and so rude in what you have said. I hope for Chris Holden's sake you resign.
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gitinjiggywitit

Gayle was very correct.
Also. virtually everyone that lives in the freeway route, bought or rented AFTER the freeway was planned.
How about all the carbon from gas etc by all the people going through stop and go traffic, instead of driving through.
SPIDRA "peak oil" wich peak are you on? Predictions have been wrong for 100 years.
driving on a freeway uses less gas than off freeway.
If I lived in the path of the freeway I would probably feel with my heart and emotions that I don't want it, but intellectually be for it......most likely......I think..........
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Forgive my humor

No gitinjiggywitit, both Gail and you are very wrong. Everyone is entitled to be ignorant, but you abuse the privilege.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Hey, Forgive, forgive me for not knowing which position you think I am supposed to be resigning from, but I don't work for Holder. I voted for him and, based on his actions in his short tenure, I'd do it again in a heart beat. His actions are more than some decision that South Pasadena is never going to be happy with anyway.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Uh, oh, Quantum. We are aligned. The Universe will implode for sure.
Frankly, somebody needs to tell South Pasadena how their valiant and noble efforts to save their quaint community play to the neighbors. Emissions aside, have you ever considered how much money your intransigence and refusal to provide a viable commercial corridor is costing the Southern California economy when trucks must reroute and take the long way around? I know you guys are full of self-talk and quite confident in your assumptions and assertions, but everybody else has to go through thither and yon just to get from here to there. They booted a good chunk of those residents. I adore the homes along that route and, by the way, their national politics are pretty awesome. Some of the best protest signs I've read while spending much longer on city streets than if the freeway had simply been extended--and by the way not extending puts that gorgeous park in jeopardy and those who frequent it from cars that travel too quickly. Cannot tell you how many times I have nearly been rear ended trying to get from 210 to 110 and needing to make a left at a light.
Fight on if you must, but you really are not playing nicely with your neighbors, and we're paying for it.
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Forgive my humor

There ya go folks, Holden's mouth piece, Gayle, admits the 710 freeway is being built to "provide a viable commercial corridor" (Cargo trucks galore). Inhale deeply folks - your health is not Holden's concern.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Forgive, no, you're wrong and rude. I am not Holder's mouthpiece. I am a voter and a supporter, and your intimidation tactics are not going to work. You're still wrong. So breathe deeply as we drive through your city streets looking for short cuts to get us where we need to go. Simple as that. There will come a time when all your protestations to the contrary, the freeway will go through.
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Joanne Nuckols

Gayle you really need to do your homework and look at a map before posting false information. Also, we all want to know where you live so we can put your inaccurate comments in context.
South Pasadena DID NOT oppose the Gold Line, in fact we fought for it with Los Angeles (Highland Park) and Pasadena. We also fought for mitigations of noise and grade separation which we did not get. LA and Pasadena was more successful on that front.
I suggest you look at a map before saying South Pasadena citizens should not be allowed to use freeways and be confined to surface streets. What cities do you think the Arroyo Seco Parkway goes through or does that freeway not count in your mind? It goes through LA and South Pasadena TO Pasadena and stops at the Pasadena border. FYI, this Parkway was the first freeway west of the Mississippi and we've had it in our town since 1939. If you were a fair person, you'd start harping that the 710 freeway should go through San Marino, as the first proposed route did, but they screamed about saving their town and pushed it over into So Pas. They don't have any freeway or light rail line so lets share the wealth.
Politically the 710 freeway or toll tunnels are unbuildable with LA, So Pas and Pasadena mayor and three councilmen against. These are the cities it would go through, not Alhambra. Check it out on that map I suggested!
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Joanne, there is something intrinsically wrong about the statement "we all want to know where you live." I have stated on more than one occasion that I lived and continue to live in Monrovia where the Gold Line will have a station stop in 2014 if all goes well. I rode the Gold Line from its inception. You may have fought to get a stop, but the citizens of South Pasadena were absolutely obnoxious and the only City to act in such fashion when the route opened. Its restrictions on the train when it started to roll through your fair city impacted the ridership that had to pass through it. At first, the train went at its normal, intended pace with alarms to alert motorists to protect passenger and driver safety. But South Pasadena just got stupid about it, and the next thing you knew, the train had to go significantly slower through South Pasadena than in any other venue, and could not use the same alarms. So your remarks are ignorant. You are comparing apples to oranges. You may have wanted a station, but you certainly did not support the train when it was fully functional. Grey haired old ladies with signs stood on that ride in protest when it went into action. You cannot change that fact with your city committee's bullying cry. It happened.
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Forgive my humor

The trouble with you, Gail, is that you lack the power of reasoning but not the power to post false information.
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Danielle Corona

I can't believe I'm saying this, but this was well said Gayle, and So. Pasadena residents need to hear this. They have held the freeway project hostage long enough. I can't believe they think the excessive stop and go, bumper to bumper twice a day traffic that congests the streets of So. Pasadena are better then what a freeway would accomplish. Whatever, it certainly keeps me from visiting and shopping in So. Pasadena.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Uh, oh. Can't believe I am saying this, too (smile). Thanks, Danielle.

spidra

Maybe South Pasadena is more diverse than you think. I was raised here and I am against the 710 completion for a number of reasons but I don't own a car, I'm pro-Metro Rail, and bike & walk or pubtrans most places I go.
I don't believe only South Pasadena should have this quality of life, I believe every city deserves it. If other cities want a freeway moratorium and to put light rail, heavy rail and bike lanes in instead, that would be fantastic. We've already reached peak oil. Destroying beautiful historic homes & trees in order to build an expensive connector to prop up a paradigm that is in the midst of unraveling makes no economic nor ecological sense. Better to make an investment in a multi-modal regional public transit system that will serve people for years to come, reduce pollution, reduce loss of life from accidents, and revitalize SGV businesses because people will have more incentive to shop locally. Additionally, we as a society should be doing more to make it possible for people to live where they work/work where they live (and have a good quality of life doing so). 60 mi commutes to work via a freeway aren't good for anyone except car manufacturers and oil companies.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Spidra, thanks for your energy consciousness. Arthritic old ladies like me are not going to ride a bike to work. Never going to happen. I'm blessed to live in Monrovia, where we have the 210, and, by the way, in about a year, thanks to the fortitude and forsight of our City Council, we will have a Gold Line Station as well. For now, I drive to the Madre Station to catch the Gold Line. I would have walked a block and taken a bus, but Metro decided to do away with the line right after I moved here. The other options you have delineated are great, and please do them while you can. Regrettably, not everyone can. As a strident Gold Line rider, however, I can tell you we sure know when gas prices rise because there's hardly a parking space to be had for all the SUVs and mini-vans that suddenly appear at the station.
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Vicki Kea

Gayle, I'm an arthritic old lady too. This is more than just South Pasadena (I don't live there). And thank Ara Najarian for your Gold Line Station. We all know that not everyone can bike or walk. The purpose of our fight isn't to close the freeway. The purpose is to lessen the traffic, which will increase if the tunnel is put in. It will increase for all cities along the foothills and all the smog from that tunnel will back up against our fair towns. So if the traffic lessens by a combination of light rail, bikes, and walkways, then old arthritic ladies like us won't be backed up in traffic. And don't forget, you can drive a hybrid or a plug-in for those of us who need the use of a vehicle. We're not out to get you whether you believe it or not. Please take a look at no710.com and see the real reasons we are against the tollway tunnel.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Vicki, from one gimpy old gal to another, thanks for your suggestions. But remember, we don't all have places to plug in our electric vehicles and are not in the market to replace our vehicles because repair and keep going is much more cost effective since we do not do a whole lot of driving due to the light rail.
But, dear friend, if you do not think there is a direct cause and effect between the high price of fuel and the extra mileage that trucks must take because there is not such a corridor, and that we're all paying for it in countless ways, not the least of which are the foodstuffs we put on our tables or the clothing on our backs, I don't want to shatter any paradigms. I sounded in here initially because Chris has done some stellar things that have been good for the common citizen. His first action had to do with jobs. He helped to champion another that had to do with paycheck loan companies. I've seen a couple of others. He's been good. I did some more digging based on the SoPas moderator's inquiry. He had supported the 710, but was pro EIR. He didn't specifically answer somebody's questions, but the reason I finally told you guys what the neighbors think is because it became a bully pulpit. Those who do not think like me must be against me kind of mindset, and that's silly. By the way, what is the replacement cost on that hybrid battery? The next car I buy will be my absolute last, and I don't want to have to rebuy it for a battery.
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Vicki Kea

Gayle, An example is that in the State of California, a 2013 Prius battery is warrantied for 10 years, no prorating, so if it craps out at 9 years 11 months, you are covered in full. There is a charging station at 1440 S. California Avenue, Monrovia (Southern California Edison Service Center). One can modify an electrical outlet to charge the vehicle in one's garage. Replacement battery could cost about $2500. I'm sure you could purchase an extended warranty after the 10-year warranty expires. Going hybrid or plug-in is not such a scary proposition.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Vicki, I've been thinking about your contention that the tunnel will increase smog levels. I don't believe that to be so. I believe the same proximate volume of cargo traffic will occur throughout the region but on a more direct basis. Right now, the burden for pollution is being born heavily along the 15, 57, 605, and 2 corridors. We, in Monrovia, abut the hills and would be most heavily impacted by incremental pollution that could not escape our topography. The fiscal cost associated with winnowing the avenues available for transit is that huge trucks are funneled into the same roadways and destructive to the highways themselves. They are also destructive to city streets when rerouted because ultimately a merchandiser has to get to a market point to offload. In order to provide goods to the stores in South Pas, any potential negative consequences have already been largely rerouted to the surrounding communities. This may help "the quality of life" in South Pas, but does it not also have a responsibility to the rest of the area?
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Vicki Kea

Gayle, so then does it not make sense to *not* build a tunnel that will increase truck traffic? You are correct. Heavy trucks do spew toxic fumes. Our topography does trap the smog. More vehicles that can't get through the 210 after 2:00 pm will take surface streets. More traffic on the freeway and the streets will begin to destroy the roadway. Goods by heavy rail makes more sense. Take destructive trucks off the highways, off the streets, and put the containers onto heavy rail. I know Metro says they can "scrub" the air inside the tunnel (experts in air quality management have already studied this, and the smallest most dangerous particulates cannot be scrubbed). However, what happens when the trucks and vehicles exit the tunnel? The air outside the tunnel cannot be scrubbed. An extra 180,000 trucks and cars on our 210 freeway. This does not seem practical, as the 210 is already a parking lot by 2:00 pm. Metro's own study says the tunnel will open at service level F. They grade this stuff like a report card, so you know what a level F is. It means it opens at a failing level. Remember, the trucks and vehicles have to go somewhere after they exit the tunnel that will surface at the only trauma center in the area, Huntington Hospital, a sensitive receptor. They can only go northwest on the 210 or east on the 210. No other way. There is no way out of the tunnel once in. You enter or exit either in Pasadena or El Sereno. No exits or entrances between.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Vicki, heavy rail makes sense to a point as do cargo ships. Massive quantities of products transported in bulk and then stepped down at warehousing areas to be disbursed across the area. I don't suspect you're suggesting we put heavy rail through South Pasadena, are you? The goods still have to get from the warehouse to the markets and it does not make business sense to have more warehouses. How is the product supposed to get from the mass market container (Long Beach or rail yard) to the targeted commercial vendor? You see, we have at least the same amount of pollutants because the products will get there anyway, and we share the same ambient air issues and, with us having the mountains directly behind us (a bear may go over that mountain, but it's harder to get the smog to go and dissipate), but effectively, your solution is to make the air quality impacts, all things being equal, someone else's problem. The trucks can use thoroughfares that go through other communities and all the other traffic problems that go with. I still will tell you there is an incremental cost borne by the rest of the Southern California community for vehicles having to be rerouted and take the long way from Point A to Point B to get product to market. The rest of us are paying for your convenience of not having such an interconnection, and that seems to be just fine with South Pas.

Vicki Kea

Yeah. I have a gripe. I am downright angry. Holden has betrayed his constituents. The 710 tunnel is not viable for geotechnical, health, historical, humanitarian, and monetary reasons. Mr. Holden, hear us loud and clear! NO 710, NOT HERE, NOT ANYWHERE!
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Donna Evans

Do any of you folks happen to have at the ready a link where Holden clearly states his position on the 710?
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Gayle M. Montgomery

I just did some digging on this and found a Patch interview with then candidate Chris. He speaks about the tunnel and thinks it has merit but says there should be an EIR (Environmental Impact Report). Seems to me there is no harm in that except to South Pasadenans who are concerned that the EIR will not hold up their claims. http://altadena.patch.com/articles/holden-profile
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Vicki Kea

Here is an article, Donna: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/urban-game-changer/2012/oct/31/chris-holden-plays-possum-he-ignores-constituents-/
Also where any of the Pasadena City Council meetings had the 710 on the agenda, you will find his stance. Steve Madison's forum on the 710 is posted on Facebook. In most of these forums/meetings, Holden hems and haws all around the subject, never giving a direct honest answer. You can find the past council meeting agendas and matching videos at the City of Pasadena website.
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Vicki Kea

Gayle, you assume that Metro is truthful and transparent regarding the EIR. Metro is not. One should be wary to say the very least.
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reality check

"710 Freeway Plan Nears Federal OK" LA Times September 30, 1997 RICHARD WINTON and KEN ELLINGWOOD
In the past Assemblymember Holden was not as shy as he is now about his 710 freeway views.
Here is a quote from Holden that predates the tunnel(s) idea. At this time the concept of the 710 freeway was a surface route (gigantic swath cut through El Sereno, South Pasadena and Pasadena) obliterating the heart of those cities. When told the surface route freeway plan was nearing a federal OK, (then) Pasadena Mayor Chris Holden gladly asked: "Now the question is, [in] what decade will it be constructed?" http://articles.latimes.com/1997/sep/30/news/mn-37728

Ron Rosen

Don't know of a link, Donna, but his views are pretty well known. Also, our new Congresswoman, Judy Chu, wants the 710 completed. Kind of weird having Holden and Chu at out Birthday Party, when they are at odds with most South Pasadenans on this important issue. Adam Schiff is our "real" congressman.
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Ron Rosen

Donna: Read the last question in this Patch article and there are also links in some of the comments. http://altadena.patch.com/articles/holden-profile
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Ron Rosen

A lot of these people who really would like to see he surface route now favor the tunnel, probably because of the opposition to the surface route. Many fear that they will pull a switcheroo and try to put the surface route through when the true cost of a tunnel is ultimately calculated.
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gitinjiggywitit

Sam, sometimes people hit the wrong button without realizing it, as I have. If you hit the reply button in someones box, but then hit reply again instead of submit, it seems to vanish. Just hit the same reply button, and it will reopen the box with your comment. Then hit the submit below.

Sam Burgess

Hi Donna,
Well, I'll try again. I just posted a comment (within the allotted characters) and it disappeared.
Sam
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gitinjiggywitit

Forgive no humor .....I am trying to learn from you so I am not so "ignorant" as you descibe me. So I am memorizing you wonderful words of wisdom below.
Geez Gail, you are so wrong and so rude in what you have said. I hope for Chris Holden's sake you resign
6:04 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
No gitinjiggywitit, both Gail and you are very wrong. Everyone is entitled to be ignorant, but you abuse the privilege
There ya go folks, Holden's mouth piece, Gayle
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gitinjiggywitit

just to be clear here, The above comments were taken quotes from someone who was jabbing at Gayle and I, gitinjiggywitit. I was not calling Gayle anthying. Just pretend you see a lot of these " " " " " " Quote marks up there.
As for the freeway, It's been going on forever:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_710
My dear old mom would rather the "red car" comes back, instead of the freeway.
They operated until 1961.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Los_Angeles_Pacific_Electric_Railways_(Red_Cars).svg
Lake avenue before almost everyone's time...1916
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolibraryarchive/8006757641/
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Jig, I knew that. I hope you're clarifying for the others. From what I've seen, the Red Car was a really cool thing. Mama is probably right.

Sam Burgess

Forgive my humor,
Please do not let Gayle get to you. Those of us who have followed Patch for a while know Gayle as a self-righteous, full-of-herself human being.
As to Chris Holden and his position on the extension of the North (SR710) Long Beach Freeway:
Assemblyman Holden has for the last 25 years been one of the most vocal proponents of extending the 710. As a councilman he helped to write Pasadena''s 2001 Measure A putting the City of Pasadena on record as favoring the 710 extension. This after the Pasadena City Council, over his objection, went on record as opposed to the freeway.
In early 2011, when then Councilman Holden announced his intention to run for assembly he conveniently modified his position by stating he would oppose the tunnel if it allowed trucks. Well, he knows (as stated by Cal-Trans) that trucks will be allowed in the tunnels and onto the 210. In short he has given himself an out.
Councilman Holden's earlier statement that we should wait for an EIR was simply a delaying tactic used during the assembly campaign. This so he would not have to answer to his previous position.
(con't on page 2)
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gitinjiggywitit

sam, actually I was making a jab at Mr "forgive my humor"
Gayle and I are good, more often on opposing sides.....but good.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Sam, Sam, Sam. Really, Sam? You say these things as though a) you are qualified to judge; b) do not mirror them yourself, and c) they are a bad thing. "self-righteous, full-of-herself human being" Jiggy and I are just fine, and you're not going to pin a tail on me for whatever you believe I am and am not.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

And Jiggy, for the record, Sam had some silly idea in times past that I was a pony. He kept trying to ride me off the Patch and tried to stay on my tail long past the time he should simply have moved on. Please let him know the pony rides are over.
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Forgive my humor

I'm quite certain, Gail, that neither Sam nor I would do ponies the disservice of confusing you for one.

Sam Burgess

(page 2):
As to the North (SR710) Long Beach Freeway extension itself:
The 710 extension is not about South Pasadena--or El Sereno--or Pasadena. The extension is and always has been about the entire region--it is a regional issue. The 710 proposal is a social, economic and environmental disaster waiting to happen.
One only has to travel the entire Long Beach Freeway to see the damage it now does to the politically powerless citizens living in the vicinity of the present freeway. With the expansion (widening) of the I-710 South and the extension of the SR 710 North (TOLL TUNNELS) this social and environmental damage will extend throughout the entire San Gabriel Valley and to the desert.
By Cal-Trans own statements (at community meetings) and power point presentations the widening and extension of the 710 will bring not only autos but freight trucks from the ports. Cal-Trans clearly states that an ADDITIONAL 180,000 autos and trucks will enter the 210 from the proposed tunnels.
And the costs (economics)? Construction will be $10 Billion plus. And this does not take into account the 10's of millions of annual dollors needed for continued maintenance once the tunnels open.
There are better options:
Direct ship to freight RAIL to move goods from the ports. This is the Alameda Corridor and the Alameda Corridor East. Multi-modal transportation (i.e. light rail, buses, etc)
(con't on page 3)
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Sam Burgess

(page 3)
Now to Gayles woefully ignorant statement that South Pasaden fought the Gold LIne.
Nothing could be further from the truth. From the beginning South Pasadena supported Light Rail. The city simply asked to be given the same considerations as the cities of Los Angeles and Pasadena.
I give you an example. The naming of the Gold Line station in South Pasadena. The city asked for the name to be the South Pasadena Station. The powers that be said all the stations would have names of streets nearest the station. Thus, the Mission Street Station. However, it seems someone forgot to hold Los Angeles to that requirement.
Let's look at the names given to the stations in the City of Los Angeles (going north): Union Station (not Alameda St.); China Town (not French St.); Cypress Park/Lincoln Heights (not Ave. 26); Heritage Square (not Marmion Way); Southwest Museum (not Figueroa St); Highland Park (not Ave 57)---and then, as you enter South Pasadena, Mission STREET.
Yes, the Mission Street station has now been changed to the South Pasadena Station but this came only AFTER the Gold Line was extended to East Los Angeles and those stations were given names such as Mariachi Plaza. The powers that be finally understood what South Pasadena had been saying from day one.
There are other examples but 3 pages are enough, so......bye
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Vicki Kea

Well said, Sam! I'll see you at the next meeting!
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Ivan G

What about the names of the stations in Pasadena?
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david heimark

Well said.
I've always maintained that if someone is a jerk and they ask you to get them to Long Beach, you send them via the 710. That anyone would want to run that traffic through our region baffles me.
The Long Beach and Los Angeles Harbor commissions have, umm... I dunno, a little clout in the local political arena and they will not stop until they get this linkage done.
Ya wanna know why? Because China and other significant trading partners have issued the edict that it be done. In order to better facilitate trade.
Otherwise? Mexico, Oakland, Seattle and Vancouver are slobbering over themselves to get a piece of that action.
Holden is wimp doom. I'd rather have a leader than another chump sucking the teat of government.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Now, Sam, dear, it is you who is woefully ignorant when it comes to the Gold Line. I have been riding it since it's inception. South Pasadena caterwauled loudly that the train went too fast was too noisy and put all kinds of impedance on the Gold Line as it deigned to go through the City. The intersection at Mission is dangerous, and the noises were necessary to alert drivers not accustomed to having such a station stop. It was a public safety issue. But having to go through the hoops that South Pas put in place at the inception meant that much of the ridership could not count on a consistent scheduling of the train to know it would almost always take X amount of time from Point A to Point B until it was eventually worked out, and it took quite a while to resolve. I don't know what station you get on or where you sat, but many riders commented upon it at the time. It was, for that reason, some of the riders took exception to the City then switching its position and trying to lure ridership to the town and its activities.
So save your WOEFUL exaggerations, Sam. To the contrary, you do not have all the answers or the experience when it comes to the train.

SteveB

When the 210 extension opened, traffic on the east-west portion went from great to awful. I'd say those of us along the 210 had our quality of life degraded - but it is hard to argue there wasn't a need, given its heavy use.
Similarly, given the number of times I've driven down Fremont to get to the 710 and the amount of traffic doing likewise, I dare say the extension would be of benefit to the region's highway system. If someone has an argument why it would not be good from a regional perspective, that would be interesting to hear. Otherwise, I suspect most of the opponents here are expressing some degree of nimbyism, with fervor proportional to their nearness to the proposed extension. Now, whether it is cost effective to do so is another matter entirely. With our current financial state, it may not make economic sense.
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Tao

Steve,
The reason is that the tunnel is not of benefit from a regional perspective is that it's a bad way to move goods. If you look at the future plans currently being hatched for freeways you need to also consider the motives behind them.
There is a plan in the works to quadruple the size of the Ports. Shipping interests are very powerful. They want to use the freeway system for goods movement. Today there are 32,000 daily cargo trucks emanating from the ports using this this whole region's freeway system. The ports have estimated that they will increase that burden to 140,000 a day. Shippers (behind the scenes with groups like Mobility 21 etc) are rewriting laws to promote their shipping needs - even using our tax dollars to create TURCK ONLY LANES. The other part of the scheme is aimed at removing commuters (cars) off of the freeway system by the use of tolls (you can see this already in the works) so they can make use our freeways for their supply chain. These freeway tolls will NOT make the city streets surrounding freeways better they will make them worse by diverting those cars and independent truckers who can't afford the cost.
No matter how you look at it, adding 140,000 Daily cargo trucks to the freeways system will degrade the air we breathe and add congestion. Check out China's air pollution problem and you will get an idea of what California will look like if we allow shippers and the politicians they have in their pockets to dictate our future.
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SteveB

Thanks - I would agree that our already overburdened regional highways should not be further burdened by additional cargo truck traffic. If cargo trucks were banned from using a 710 extension, would that change your opinion of the extension? It still seems to me that it would be of benefit for commuter traffic.
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Vicki Kea

There is a need for transport, but not this way. There are better ways. Metro is not considering those alternatives, although they say they are. Meaning that if the 210 build, closing the gap to the 15 degraded the quality of life along the 210 and the commute went from great to awful in a short time, then it is not successful. Build a road and they will come. A new alternative for transport would have been a better choice so that some vehicles would be off the roadway. This 710 project is being driven by much more than our commutes. Please review the information at the link below. http://www.no710.com/_resources/710Notebook-1-2013.pdf
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Vicki Kea

Steve, the tunnel is also not viable monetarily. Safety is a huge issue since the twin-bore double-decker tunnels will be bored through three earthquake faults and two aquifers. No exits between the two portals is extremely dangerous in cases of emergency situations. Air pollution is another negative factor. See this notebook. I know it is extremely long and detailed. Take some time to read a little each day: http://www.no710.com/_resources/710Notebook-1-2013.pdf
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Tao

Steve, banning trucks from the tunnel is a red herring that METRO and Holden keep tossing out there. But the hidden purpose (according to Metro) backed up by the financial studies they've done contradict that ever happening.
1. According to Metro (as explained in their news release), the 710 tunnels are being built specifically for trucks: http://tinyurl.com/adu5346
"While this year's 18 projects and the I-405 are designed primarily to give people a better commute, three other high-profile projects in various planning stages but not yet scheduled, address the demands of commerce -- specifically goods movement from the twin ports of L.A. and Long Beach, the two busiest ports in the country, and goods movement from California's Central Valley, America's bread basket."..."The 710 north gap closure between the I-10 and the I-210 would complete the natural goods corridor that was begun several decades ago." (Doug Failing, executive director of highway programs Metro)
2 .710 tunnels will not "pencil out" unless they have the income of tolls from trucks: http://tinyurl.com/cemhbah
Even with trucks, if the tunnels estimated capital expenditures exceed 6.3 billion (2007$ and likely will total 24 B upon completion), it will have to be subsidized by tax payers otherwise the tolls would be astronomical : http://tinyurl.com/coyvq45
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SteveB

Well, there you go - if you can extract a concession that the 710 extension will not allow cargo trucks and that makes the extension financially impractical, you've accomplished your goal.
@Vicki, I find your "build a road and they will come" assessment lacking, at least, with regards to the 210 extension - the increase in traffic once the extension was completed was sudden, i.e., not added vehicles for the region, but more likely traffic now taking a better route than the 10 or 60. In other words, relieving pressure off other regional highways. Bad for us, good for others.
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Vicki Kea

SteveB, regarding "build and they will come," see this info regarding induced traffic: http://www.no710.com/_better_solutions_ls/1-repurpose_the_710/highway-expansion-myth.pdf
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gitinjiggywitit

Freeways--congestion--etc
Before the 210 freeway went through pasadena, Wodbury road was congested, as people used it race across to NewYork dr.- foothil BLVD for the east-- west route.
When the freeway opened in the early seventies, It did not have a slow rush hour f 7 or 8 years. But what happened is, a change in peoples job, and houses. Suddenly someone who worked in Glendale could move to Glendora for a cheaper house, and still work in Glendale, Alot of houses were built along the cities of the 210. They mostly would of been built anyway. But having the 210 in place set up the commuting possibilities. That with the general growing population, by the time the 1981 recession ended, the freeway became congested. From what I remember as a kid, the traffic on the streets here never increased back to the pre freeway days. But the freeway did increase the overall commute rides east-west by 50 times over the last 40 years.

Ron Rosen

I think, SteveB, that what was originally nimbyism, has led to much knowledge about alternative to freeways. We need to start looking at new alternatives. Most of the politicians who support the 710 connection seem to be locked into old ways and unwilling to see the need for new paradigms.
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Nick Yates

We have been opposed to the Tunnel for years as many other have, because we want the money spent on mass transit, We don't want more exhaust and we want to be able to keep the various communities that have miraculously begun to flourish in these hard times, in spite of Big Businesses' preferences for fossil fuels. Rail Rail Rail.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Nick, I'm with you on the rail all the way, but how do you move commerce? I encourage as many as I can at the office to use mass transit and show them the convenience that could be available. But I don't think you want cargo on that transit. When I have to travel to San Diego for biz, I most often take the Surfliner. Surfliner uses tracks owned by other entities and, when cargo trains need to pass, we are sometimes delayed because they have the right of way. You can get a lot of cargo to nexus points on rail, but they still have to go from that hub to various points. Having those big trucks off of most city streets saves the streets and saves lives in the long run.
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Vicki Kea

I think there is a little bit of a mix-up. There are two kinds of big rigs on the road. One type is a container truck that hauls the containers from the ships to distribution centers. There second type of big rig are those that you see on the road, such as Vons, Walmart, Target, etc. that bring goods to the businesses. The purpose of the 710 tunnel is to move goods by container truck from the ports to distribution centers in places that are up in the high desert. So we would not be moving commerce. We would be removing the container trucks by putting the containers on heavy rail. So basically, the tunnel will be depositing truck traffic from the ports to our Foothill doorsteps to go to points in the high desert. Heavy rail is the more prudent, environmentally and monetarily. Remember, if you build a highway/freeway/tollway, they will come whether it is needed or not as evidenced by the completion of the 210. It did nothing to relieve traffic. If we were to widen the 210 today, thinking that it will alleviate traffic, we would find that in a very short time, those lanes will also be clogged with no traffic relief. Therefore, adding more roadways or widening roadways doesn't work to alleviate traffic and studies have been done on the issue. Please take a look at this site. It is a very interesting take on how the ports would work and goods moved: http://gridlogisticsinc.com/
No, I do not work for GRID Logistics.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Again, Vickie, I would directly ask you, are you then in favor of having heavy rail go through South Pasadena as a direct route from the ports? What is the cost to build such rail, and who bears responsibility for that expense. What is the safety of the existing railways. On the San Bernardino Metrolink line, on very warm days, they have to stop the train in places like Fontana and do a bus bridge because the rails become too heated to safely transport. And that's just people. What kind of infrastructure do we have existing to support this, and at what cost? Finally, the last time I looked, the High Desert is still part of the California and specifically Southern California economy. Do we just thumb our nose and say not my problem, or do we try to do things to fortify the economy of our state? An improved high desert may lure additional businesses and spur the California economy which has been lagging? It's a lot more complex than simply stick it on the train and la la la, I don't wanna think about it.
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Vicki Kea

No, Gayle, I'm not suggesting heavy rail from El Sereno to Pasadena. Did you get a chance to review the GRID Logistics site? Think outside the box. A whole new approach from the ports (the beginning) to the end (goods movement to hubs). A new system. Why use trucks at the ports to haul the containers to a train when the containers can be put directly on a train or conveyor? See the proposed routes at GRID Logistics. This is not the only idea out there. I'm just using this one as an example. Here is a good map of the Alameda Corridor and Alameda Corridor East. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.theaceproject.org/photo/intermodel1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.theaceproject.org/&h=822&w=1114&sz=476&tbnid=Dh37W9cxC0ooPM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=124&zoom=1&usg=__OC4S9BF5mfjvRx-lPzKkE7oQWoU=&docid=0RIwAMXVwRjk3M&sa=X&ei=_oo5UbnOLu3iyAH-tYHoDg&ved=0CFEQ9QEwAw&dur=1160
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Vickie, again SoPas expects to be unjustly enriched by diverting the potential for traffic to go through your area and transferring it to some other community. At 60 years of age, I have been having to find detours and shortcuts through South Pasadena for decades from the Alhambra area to Pasadena or from LA to other parts of the SGV. For that matter, I had even considered relocating to SoPas but was put off by the actions of the citizenry with respect to the train in motion and the fact that, along the initial route, SoPas had a fee-based parking structure which would have had added an incremental expense to the commute.
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Vicki Kea

Gayle, I realize that one might think that this is a commuter issue, but it is not. It is driven by goods movement. I would be interested if you would be wiling to pay up to $15.00 per trip through the tunnel for a commute between Pasadena and El Sereno, because that is what it will take to pay back the foreign private investor. What if you want to go somewhere between the two portals? No can do. You enter the tunnel in Pasadena and you come out in El Sereno. Then you have to double back. Vice versa for those entering the tunnel at the other end. What happens to those who don't want or cannot pay the toll? They take the streets. What if truckers don't want to pay the toll. The trucks take the streets. The better solution is taking traffic off the road with better light rail, trolley cars (mom was right), and shuttles, bike lanes, and pedestrian walkways to reduce congestion, and new and innovative methods of moving goods from the ports to their destinations.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Vicki please define new and innovative in your last remarks.

Vicki Kea

Please take a look at this notebook. As I noted in another post, I know it is extremely long and detailed but if you want to know about the 710 issue, it is all here and will be updated periodically. Taking it in small chunks helps one to digest the info. http://www.no710.com/_resources/710Notebook-1-2013.pdf
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Sam Burgess

...And now...back to the original point of this blog--What questions or concerns do we have for Assemblyman Holden.
Assemblyman Holden, you have stated you are opposed to allowing trucks in the proposed SR710 tunnel extension. Some of your constituents have taken this as saying you would oppose the tunnel if trucks were allowed.
Is this an accurate depiction of your statements and views?
There is a concern in your district--from Pasadena on the West to Upland in the East--that your support of using Measure R funds on the SR710 study--a study using 1950's, 20th century solutions to solve a 21st century transportation problem--is taking away funds that could be used to extend the Gold Line even further to the East.
Do these concerns accurately reflect your position?
Thank you for your response.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Since the South Pasadena Posse is being ignorant in its remarks about their role regarding the train at its onset, here is an LA Times article that captures what I've been saying. There was no secret the train was coming. It was built on an abandoned rail right of way where there would have been significantly more noise with heavy rail, and yet the article speaks to what the good citizenry said and did about the train and how its ridership was impacted. Now maybe some of the ballyhooers just didn't live there when that happened, and I will stipulate to that. But it does not negate the fact that it did happen in spite of the asinine remarks that I'm being ignorant in my remarks about South Pasadena and its impedance. http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jul/02/local/me-noise2
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Gayle M. Montgomery

The search query results also yielded this snippet from 2006 in a presumably cached article, but, due to age, the original article does not come through when you click on the link. Gold Line introducing express service - DailyBulletin.com
www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3441676Jan 27, 2006 – But speed restrictions in South Pasadena and Los Angeles have led to slower service. Increased ridership on the Gold Line is seen as key to ...
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Gayle M. Montgomery

I also found a third article that said that, because the trains were set to run more swiftly, when the bar went down and the bells rang, they had to ring longer for the slower speed which was another reason the citizenry complained, and they perceived this as punishment for not allowing the 710 freeway to be completed. That article is almost 10 years old. So, for criminy sakes, South Pasadena, do your homework and take some responsibility for your own actions.
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True Freedom

The govts studies show that connecting the 710 will yield more truck and auto traffic on the 210 east AND west (which borders Altadena). With the San Gabes on one side and the 210 on two other sides, Altadena can expect an increase in local air pollution with the 710.
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Forgive my humor

Gail, how much more of your venom and hatred can you spew at the residents of South Pasadena? Does Chris Holden approve of your behavior?
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Forgive, I don't. Meet me at Chris's meet and greet and we'll ask him together. I do not work for Holden, I do not hate South Pasadena, but it's time you guys understood the actions of your city have had on others, all your name calling aside. You are a bully, but hey, I am not somebody you easily bully.

SteveB

Forgive your hypocrisy, 6 posts, 6 attacks, no contribution of substance.
1) "Geez Gail, you are so wrong and so rude in what you have said. I hope for Chris Holden's sake you resign." Let's take a look at FMH's posts and see who is being rude.
2) "No gitinjiggywitit, both Gail and you are very wrong. Everyone is entitled to be ignorant, but you abuse the privilege." Nice. Accusation of ignorance, no facts to support the assertion.
3) "There ya go folks, Holden's mouth piece, Gayle, admits the 710 freeway is being built to "provide a viable commercial corridor" (Cargo trucks galore). Inhale deeply folks - your health is not Holden's concern." Continuing the fiction that Gayle represents Holden.
4) "The trouble with you, Gail, is that you lack the power of reasoning but not the power to post false information." Amusing, isn't it, given the false assertion made in comment 3? Not to mention an apparent inability to rebut any of Gayle's "false information".
5) "I'm quite certain, Gail, that neither Sam nor I would do ponies the disservice of confusing you for one." Gratuitous insult, check.
6) "Gail, how much more of your venom and hatred can you spew at the residents of South Pasadena? Does Chris Holden approve of your behavior?"
Who is spewing venom and hatred? Others here may take exception with what Gayle posts, but they post counterpoints. You just post ... <insert expletive>.
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Dominique LaTavion

@ Forgive My Humor
Of course Chris Holden approves of Gail's attacks on the city of South Pasadena. Chris Holden is certainly not a friend of that city considering how strongly he has advocated for the 710 freeway to tear right through it.
I saw them together at one of Holden's events and those two appear very well acquainted. If you Google Gail Montgomery's name you'll see she posts comments on almost every article about him like a paid spokesperson would do. I don't think a person not being paid to do this would spend that much time out of their assumed busy day unless they are paid. My guess is Montgomery is Holden's "Karl Rove" style strategist and she uses Rush Limbaugh's style while acting as Holden's spokesperson. You know like if both Holden and Montgomery can deny she represents him, then she can say any foul thing she wants using his talking points while Holden's hands appear nice and clean.
Chris Holden hiring an attack dog? Seems plausible to me.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Dominique, you have put 2 and 2 together and come up with 22. If you can prove that I work for Chris Holden or that I served in his campaign staff in any way, I will give you a $100. Offer expires when hell freezes over. You guys will say anything so that the only message that comes through is no on 710 and anybody who supports Chris for his work on jobs or in stoppying payday loan sheisters must be a shill. Maybe you guys are suffering from lack of pollution or something because you're brains are not connecting the dots here.
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Gayle M. Montgomery

Now, as far as you having seen Chris and I together, unless you were at the 41st District delegation election and saw me shake his hand and thank him for taking action on the payday loans, because I have seen other people's lives ruined behind them, you really do not know what in the hades you are taking about. As far as your Karl Rove and Rush Limbaugh commentary, when I'm through laughing, I'll see if we cannot find you a good doctor for those delusions. That is funny. Poor baby.

Marvion

Rename this thread: Got a Gripe? Gayle M. Montgomery, Robert Defulgentiis and Holden Want to Hear It.